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Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others

This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
Ok, so I will try to make this concise and clear:

With about 25 hours on the Bidat I did some preliminary testing last evening. Note that John Wright has informed me that the Bidat mods need 3 weeks to fully settle in so this is a sort of "take it for what it is" review.

I just found out that HDTracks is now carrying the Verve Catalog and they have Diana Krall "Quiet Nights" on 24/96khz FLAC ready for download. I already owned the Redbook version so I thought, great I will download it and compare the various versions.

I converted the flac files to AIFF using Max (I run a mac mini using the HiFace converter and a FIM Gold digital S.E. cable to the various dacs).

I first compared the Bidat and MSB Power Dac using the 24/96 material down-sample in iTunes to 44.1khz. That is a no-no iTunes did not do a very good job and I did not like the sound on either machine. I then compared the 24/96khz material down-sampled to 44.1 using PureMusic (MUCH MUCH better than iTunes doing the down-sampling :) the sound was very close, but I noted that the Bidat did not seem to sound as good with the down-sampled material as the MSB...it had a sort of constrained uptight character to the overall flavor of the music.

Next up I compared the 24/96 version played (obviously) on the MSB to the Redbook on the Bidat. This is a comparison that I don't think yielded much real world information. The material is mastered too differently, the Redbook is compress (like most RB material) whereas the 24/96 material is very relaxed and flowing. Despite this I walked away thinking the MSB 24/96 was most enjoyable, but the Bidat RB was more energetic. That last statement may seem to contradict my comments concerning compression, but it really does not, I did note both characteristics.

Now this is the test I believe was most telling. RB on the Bidat vs the MSB. Bidat wins!!!

Ok, kidding it is not that simple. The Bidat does in fact sound far more musical than the MSB all things being equal, but when one allows PureMusic to handle the number crunching duties instead of iTunes, the MSB becomes so close to the Bidat (kissn cousins) I can not readily make a decision as to which is better (remember the Bidat only has 25 hours on it). I would go so far as to say that ANYONE who owns the MSB owes to themselves to purchase the PuerMusic software (and before anyone asks, no I do not have any type of relationship with the folks a ChannlD other than they got my $129.00 for the PureMusic s.w. :)

PM on the MSB is really beautiful, but with the Bidat.., NOT so much. The Bidat did not take to the PM very well at all in fact I flat did not care for the sound. The Bidat has a character which is simply breathtaking and the PM did not mix well with its' natural character.

This is perfect as the Bidat is on 44.1/48khz so I don't need the sample rate switching abilities of PM when I listen to the Bidat. Thus the PM software will be used exclusively with the MSB in my system.

Killer digital = Bidat + Mac Mini + M2Tech HiFace + REALLY REALLY GOOD Coax digital cable

or

MSB + Mac Mini + PureMusic Software + M2Tech HiFace + REALLY REALLY GOOD Coax digital cable (Note I have found that the best filter to use with the MSB is the default filter).

Ok, there you have it. I will follow this up when the Bidat fully breaks in.
vhiner
544 posts
 
Audiofun,

Thanks for the fascinating and detailed update. I had little doubt that the Bidat would have trouble keeping up in the hi rez domain. It just doesn't have the computing power. Not to take anything away from the fine work being done at MSB, but it is amazing that a $2000 DAC manufactured in the mid 90's is keeping up with a brand new $8,000 stat-of-the-art converter when it comes to Redbook. John Wright has figured out a way to really squeeze the very most out of the 44.1 material without losing the music. For those of us with extensive redbook collections, the modded Bidat is a valuable treasure. If Mr. Wright ever figures out a way to take this technology into the hi rez realm he'll have a giant killer for the future. If music distributors ever start offering ALL of their material via hi rez on the web, everything will change. Until then, I'm glad I have a Bidat.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
Tomorrow marks the 2 week run-in of my modded Bidat. It has changed dramatically in those 2 weeks. I think by now you folks know that I like my Power Dac, but the Bidat is beginning to pull ahead and open the gap a bit.

I was asked by a fellow audiophile what I thought the differences were between the two and I put it as such:
The Bidat (if both are compared to women) would be more of a ravishing beauty with not quite as much depth, while the MSB would be likened to a very attractive woman with perhaps a more cerebral tilt. Leaving that analogy for a moment, if you stood at an abyss and the music were emanating from somewhere in the abyss, the MSB would portray that music as coming from a much deeper point than the Bidat....That was until about 2 days ago.

The Bidat now has that seemingly bottomless pit depth of sound origination plus it remains the ravishing beauty of the bunch. At this point I would say it is the best D/A I have ever experienced (not just owned.., experienced).

Now the MSB is no slouch and for $4300 ($5k with volume control) it is simply one of the best most musical dacs available and really does break the cookie cutter sterile sound of so many highly praised dacs which fail to deliver anything resembling music.

Stay tuned I shall continue to comment as things unfold.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
One other thing concerning the MSB, you have probably read people describe its character (sound) as laid-back. It is... it is a very languid sounding unit, and if you decide to team it with a preamplifier, I suggest you do NOT use a laid back euphonic warm and fuzzy pre. Something a bit on the concise and fast side of the track would probably work better. I could imagine the Sonic Frontiers 'Line' series would be a good match as well as others.
vhiner
544 posts
 
Audiofun,

Is the MSB unit you have the company's top-of-the-line configuration? Additionally, I'm assuming your most recent post applies to redbook only?
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