Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?


It’s easy to make snide remarks like “yes- I do the opposite of what he says.”  And in some respects I agree, but if you do that, this is just going to be taken down. So I’m asking a serious question. Has ASR actually changed your opinion on anything?  For me, I would say 2 things. I am a conservatory-trained musician and I do trust my ears. But ASR has reminded me to double check my opinions on a piece of gear to make sure I’m not imagining improvements. Not to get into double blind testing, but just to keep in mind that the brain can be fooled and make doubly sure that I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing. The second is power conditioning. I went from an expensive box back to my wiremold and I really don’t think I can hear a difference. I think that now that I understand the engineering behind AC use in an audio component, I am not convinced that power conditioning affects the component output. I think. 
So please resist the urge to pile on. I think this could be a worthwhile discussion if that’s possible anymore. I hope it is. 

chayro

Agree it is time to close this thread.  Although, it does demonstrate a crystal clear difference between Audiogon and ASR.  ASR would never have allowed a similar exchange.

A parting suggestion before this thread might disappear.  Go back and carefully read recent posts from @kevn.  Very thoughtful, reasoned and accurate analysis.

I am astounded by the amount of  prof take as good arguments...

Hearing theories and their link to the design practice ... No value for prof... Amir did not even adress that he called that "philosophy" when i spoke about it and when Van Maanen write about it he called that, leaflet of marketing with no value ...He does not even try to understand the content... Everybody can look for himself with the link above......

The difference between abstracts Fourier map of frequencies, amplitude and phase and duration compared to concrete subjective ears/brain evaluation in the time domain and non linearly extracted from natural sound sources... No value for prof parotting Amir here ...

The fact that it is psycho-acoustic research now that drive audio industry no more the basic traditional gear design from edison to the first tube amp and the first S.S. amplifier and the first modern microphones in the boom after the war , because the industry being mature now, the great innovation comes from dac psycho-acoustic technology improving and mature now, but also from the like of Choueri virtual room acoustic , using positively and not eliminating as Amir do the subjective ears/brain specificities ( HTRF measures and specific inner ears comb filters measures to increase the musical experience by the fine tuning of his BACCH filters application for each subjective listener using his subjective characteristic com-pletelt instead of rejecting them )

Choueri did the exact opposite of Amir, to increase the experience he used and measure each specific aspects of subject hearing DIFFERENT abilities and his room too and speakers... Amir reject all subjective ears/brain aspects as mere illusions or artefacts . he promoted only a small set of electrical measure as REAL FACTOR of sound qualities, except some room measures but he does not advise for small room acoustic (sic)... Is it not incredible ? All that has No value as argument for prof parotting Amir here...

The fact that even hearing impairment studies need experiments in a natural environment not just in a laboratory with Fourier maps around what is called ECOLOGICAL HEARING THEORY , this is no value for prof parotting Amir...

The fact that serious designer even here in Audiogon , not just Van Maanen, use harmonics ( distortion positive control) to ease the way the ears/brain perceive sound qualities , it is of no value for prof parotting Amir whose circle of zealots purist ignorant called that MARKETING for audiophiles (idiots) .. Incredible arrogance and educated stupidity...

The fact that any trained classical musician or acoustician , or mature lover of music as i am one, can judge an audio system by analysing rise and decay of piano notes , the rise and decay of cymbals ( a perfect SIGN for analysing the way the audio system work in time control because the concentric decay of a strucked cymbals increasing as a slow circle before vanishing is better than a Fourier map analysis and way more shorter to analyse ) the bass evaluation with turkish drum or gong , and the organ bassier note rendition , the rise of the higher note of the violin and his decay time etc, all that are IMMEDIATELY revelatory of an audio design better than few electrical measures from the linear Fourier window of a circuit behaviour, but it is of no value for Prof parotting Amir...

it is incredible the knowledge of prof and Amir...they are able to predict everything about audio qualities with few set of electrical measures... Indeed it is exactly what Amir sell to gullible consumers.. His method as catechism...

They know something , and they know better than me on many audio points for sure, but their misunderstanding of the BASIC psycho-acoustic theory and applications is stunning...

They really think that techno cultism is science and replace concrete listening experience and the only possible experiment is with the few tools of Amir...

Amir bragged about predicting cymbal harmonious decay or the timbre of a violin by measuring an amplifier and connecting it with speakers in a room with no acoustic...No doubt any acoustician can go to sleep now and any recording engineer too, any classical or jazz musicians, they dont know what transparency is, Amir know with his electrical tools...

i am astounded and dumbfounded... i had been unable to discuss anything here anybody can verify that Amir produce no argument against my essential point NONE ... Oppenheim and Magnasco experiment no value for prof at all, parotting Amir...

And prof say naively that he is even attacked on ASR by defending something about the hearing subjectivity...Incredible... imagine a naive designer audiophile how it will be treated ? i know because i read many pages of dialogue between an expert designer and some Amir groupies... this designer is more a saint that i am for sure...

it seems we can have a diploma at low price now...

In my time 1963, i studied latin and old greek english too ( but i did not pass my graduation in english 😊 and i struggle with Latin theme writing ) we learned anyway how to read any text and commented it at 13 years old... now it seems that education dont exist. only SPECIALIZATION with empty programmable students....

i say all that because i am stunned by this level of ignorance... i am not an engineer in audio ... And i am able to win easily an argument, so much high is the level of ignorance in techno cultism ...

 

Closing this thread is an error... this thread can inform everybody about his marketing  ways..... 

It is the only place where Amir debated with evident sign of ignorance because challenged seriously , ignorance about psycho-acoustic and ignorance of any solid arguments ... He drown the fish with his tools analysis reviews one after the other as ARGUMENTS... Subjectivity must be eliminated by blind test and never used in the design process... It is the opposite of craftmanship design based on psycho-acoustic ...

Anybody can read the arguments and see there is no serious understanding of psycho-acoustic behind Amir defense of his small set of tools... The measure he takes are useful to know but cannot predict audible musical qualities from the gear... The gear must be paired synergetically in an acoustic room and reviewed by experienced listeners and the designers himself...

 

 

Agree it is time to close this thread. Although, it does demonstrate a crystal clear difference between Audiogon and ASR. ASR would never have allowed a similar exchange.

A parting suggestion before this thread might disappear. Go back and carefully read recent posts from @kevn. Very thoughtful, reasoned and accurate analysis.

Post removed