The Exogal saga continued....


As the owner of the Comet Plus/Ion combo, I have been a vocal critic of Exogal for fumbling the ball on the absence of applications needed to run them. They made the Comet without an illuminated window and reading it is difficult, and the remote, by their own admission, is inadequate. So the apps were indispensable, period. They have claimed for months that a new, improved remote "module" was in the making and about to be released immanently. I actually tried out a prototype they sent me and it wasn't very good. As time passed I tried to communicate with them via their website (on which they advertise a streamer line that they don't make!) and by phone, and was ignored.

So I chased down their sales manager here on Audiogon and he put me in touch with the CEO. The CEO admitted there was a problem and offered a range of excuses--a knee operation, a major internet hacking of their site, the pandemic, poor Chinese-sourced parts, an inability to get parts, etc. [In retrospect I am surprised that he didn't claim the same aliens who started the forest fires in California had attacked Minnesota] I said that I had the Ion packed up in a box as it was unusable and requested a remote for the Comet which he said was ready and would be shipped. He further stated that a new product line was in the making and that when it was released those who had the misfortune to purchase the Comet/Ion could trade those units in for "generous" credit toward the new line. Very well, I have spend thousands of dollars on this stuff so how long do I have to sit on it until I can change it out? There is no timetable for the new offerings--possibly by the end of the year, possibly not. Basically I got the old "trust me, I'm working on it" speech that they give everyone.

Two weeks went by--no remote. At that point I demanded a refund for the Comet and Ion which of course the CEO denied. He claimed he didn't send the remote because he assumed that I had packed both the Comet and Ion away until the unspecified time that he would so generously exchange them for his new products! He said he would send the remote immediately.

Yet another week has gone by--no remote. So I pass all this on to the court of public opinion. But it is ironic that the CEO of Exogal, in one of his own public postings right here on Exogal wrote: 
 "
Too many audio companies announce a product, start selling it, and then frustrate the paying customer with BS excuses. Meanwhile, they've got your money." That sounds remarkably like the situation I find myself in. 
128x128rtorchia
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Schroeder, I strongly question the professional ethics of your steadfast attempts to defend Exogal. You would do very well to study the scientific and objective reviews on Audio Science Review in an effort to remedy your subjectivity. You can start by reading their reviews of Topping products. 
I challenge Exogal to send a Comet over there for review and let’s all see how it compares with a number of Toppings that cost well under 1k. The Comet, which is basically featureless, would best be compared with the $200 Schiit  Modius which is on ASR’s recommended list. So let’s do it whenever you are ready.
Exogal has shown it is willing to defend itself. I review; I"m not a PR agent. The seemingly fictitious comparisons you present I would challenge regardless of the company involved. 

I wrote the reviews of the Comet and Ion, and did the video interview in regard to the Vortex all prior to my knowledge (I believe prior to the emergence of the incompatibility issue of the software remote) of the issues with the software remote. My motivation to write about the Pulsar - which was another unpaid article I did not have to write - was to help the community and Exogal both, to be of assistance in cleaning up a problem with the unit. Anyone who reads the Pulsar article will see it is even handed and is not attempting to defend the company. Ironically, this is perhaps the third time in 14 years where I attempted to go the extra mile at my own initiative, and in all three instances it resulted in criticism from a member of the community (or industry member behind a moniker). 

The community can see clearly enough the evidence that my ethics are intact. Above, I challenged you on claims of product performance which I suspected were based on nothing more than conjecture, and you responded with ad hominem attacks. You still have not demonstrated that you did any kind of actual comparison, yet you discuss multiple products, imo in completely invalid comparisons, i.e. DAC (Comet) versus DAC (Topping) and Amp (Purifi based). You never did discuss the amp used with the Comet, which is significant, because the Purifi-based amp alone would potentially cause a significant improvement in performance over an older/other class of amp. In your comments factors such as that are completely ignored, yet you want to not only draw conclusions, but use them against a company. From your above description of your activities, you sold off the Comet, then purchased these others. Thus, you had zero comparison of sound, yet you make claims as to which is better. Anyone who has experience in such things will see immediately that it is an invalid comparison to discuss a DAC versus a DAC/Amp combo. The ONLY proper discussion of a product is direct comparison, an apples to apples, one on one comparison. 

You even extend your fantasy comparisons to a field of Purify-based amps! I suspect that if you had done comparison that was favorable to the Topping DAC as stand alone alternative to the Exogal Comet, then we would have heard much about it. You give no discussion of the comparison, you have no comment on sound quality attributes of each. I conclude you did nothing but sold one, bought these others, and want to slam the Exogal without any comparisons, but act as though you know how it would have gone. 

That is what I challenged, and I would have challenged it whether it involved Exogal or any other brand I have reviewed. I could care less what Audio Science Review says, and it seems evident that you think you have the ability to draw conclusions on performance without actually using/comparing equipment. Worse, you use your fantasy conclusions to assault one company and promote others. As I said, I will let Exogal defend themselves, but your methods are nonsense. 

You should know that the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme with the Stacatto opamps under review would best your Topping DAC. That wouldn't be too great an outcome for the Topping DAC, would it? See, that is a great example of the nonsense you promote. Obviously, no one can say which would be preferred without direct comparison. Yet, you, and many others who are ignorant in these matters, think you can judge entirely apart from such comparisons. I suggest you learn how to conduct proper comparisons and discussions of equipment. That is an issue you have entirely apart from your displeasure with the Comet. You see, it's not a matter of me defending Exogal, but a matter of me confronting your inappropriate declarations of which is better apart from comparison, then using that to promote one company over another. Put whatever companies you wish into the slots of DAC vs DAC/Amp, and I would state the same objection. 

You are brining into your criticism of me your seeming preference for measurement driven analysis of products and advising me to lean on Audio Science Review. As stated above, I do not care what that entity says about any particular product. Superior systems are not built by scouring specs. I could go on about the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifiers, which sports terrific specs - ah, yes, I did so in the review! It would be rather stupid of me to simply look at specs and select an amp as though I know how it will sound in my system. That is another aspect the hubris of many audiophiles in this community. If you want to select a product based on measurements thinking that it will yield superior sound, then great, do things your way. It will not assure you actually assemble a superior audio system. 

Finally, I don't care much what you or anyone else says about a product's performance when it is used in merely one or two iterations of systems. I typically build a dozen or more rigs, often with many speakers, to assess a product's performance. Consequently, I have a more global understanding of the product's performance than most hobbyists and even reviewers. So, do I give a rip what others say? No, I will reach my own conclusions. 

Do I expect you to accept this correction? No; based on your history, I expect you to continue to be oppositional. If you wish to be cordial and considerate, then I am willing to continue discussion. But, if you determine to continue your assaults, then I am finished with our conversation.   
I certainly wouldn't compare my extremely limited knowledge to yours in anything that pertains to audio. It appears from your statements that you see room for subjectivity when it comes to measurements, and plenty of people do. I can tell you categorically that after living with the Exogal/Comet duo for an extended period of time I feel that the Purifi/RME (and/or Topping) combo kills them in performance at a fraction of the price as well has having many useful features like a readable screen. Topping isn't the greatest DAC but for south of $1,000 it is awfully good. That is my personal experience based on listening to this combo. I am a consumer like most other people here and don't have the luxury of someone in your princely position of switching dozens of components around and I have to make an informed decision of what I buy.  

But what surprises--and disappoints-- me about you is the way you continue to prop up a dead horse--namely Exogal. On various videos you praised the late lamented apps and noted that was the crux of the system. You might consider it useful to think of the consumer who does not have the advantages of being a reviewer and actually pays hard earned money for stuff. I believe that Exogal is one of the many audio outfits that releases products that aren't fully thought out and then find themselves in a bad position. That is an industry phenomenon with which you are doubtless quite familiar. I also think to review a pretty cruddy remote that is a rotten substitute for apps made by a company that probably didn't sell more that 1,000 units is odd. I bet the people who paid 7k for those nice aluminum cases didn't envision having one of those! Anyhow, my beef isn't with you and I actually enjoy your reviews so excuse me if I was rude. But my antipathy for Exogal will not abate. This Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme looks very interesting and I'll check it out. 
rotrchia, you answered with more restraint and consideration, so I will continue discussion. :)

More than once you have referred to, "various videos," as if I have made it a particular point to promote Exogal, or in some fashion do videos to help defend the company. If my memory serves me correctly, I have done precisely ONE video related to audio/reviewing in 14 years, and it happened to be the one interview of Jeff and Ken regarding the Vortex. I have noted that occurred prior to my awareness of any incompatibility. Yet, you keep referring to "videos" and me defending the company. It’s an interesting phenomenon to have work done prior to the appearance of an issue with a product be described as "defending" the company.

Evidence please! Let’s see the links to the videos. I would find that a curiosity, considering I have done no other videos. I am asking you to provide links to these "videos" in which I, "continue to prop up a dead horse," by "praising the late lamented apps." Considering that my one video focusing on the Vortex was done prior to all of the issues with the software remote control, I find it disappointing that you continue to characterize it as defending Exogal. I call that manipulation of the facts. If I wish to be more charitable, I would say it is a loose memory at work.

I will tell you what you will discover. You find no other videos. You will - if you are even remotely objective - find that I was merely asking questions and Jeff and Jim were answering them in the one video I did. You have been wrong about the majority of what you have written here in regards to me.

Further, you have not simply acknowledged that you had horrid methods in your fictional, non-assessment of the Exogal products to any others you have used. The poor methods involved not only Exogal, but Topping and the amp. You defend your fictitious comparisons by appealing to our different status in the community, rather than simply acknowledging you have no clue how they would compare in a proper assessment.

Perhaps you do not know that I have spent decades working my way up from used, budget gear which would rate as Low Fi, to Mid-Fi, to HiFi. I presume you are unaware that I have also build dozens of budget systems in my years as an audiophile. I perfectly understand the intense desire for extreme performance for a buck. But, that does not allow someone to simply make up results. One can pretend, but that’s a far cry from actually building superior audio systems. I must admit that back when I was a budget audiophile, I too made up all sorts of scenarios by which my gear had to sound better. I think it’s an audiophile defense mechanism employed for various reasons. I had to learn over time that it’s not productive to simply guess at what an outcome will be in regards to any combo of gear. :)