Finally found THE SPEAKER!!!

@jayh  

Thank you!

@drewde --

Great thread and -initiation. I must say that I cherish your insights and where you come from, not least also in regards to your extensive background in the movie sound mix industry, and how I believe this to relate to my own approach and preference with sound reproduction in a domestic setting. A lot to process for sure in what has unspooled in the posts so far, so this, as an outset at least, will be a condensed or fragmented contribution of mine. 

I've heard of (but never actually heard) the Wisdom Audio speakers that you've come across with their, per your take, favorable ability to bridge the "nuance and delicacy vs. dynamics and punch" chasm expressed by you. To many an audiophile I'm guessing this is not a dichotomy at all, being the latter part of the "equation" (i.e.: dynamics and punch, certainly as called for with the more uninhibited home movie sound reproduction) isn't that important to them:

"There's no way I would subject a good pair of speakers designed to reveal separate instruments in an ensemble or do justice to a folksinger plus guitars, banjo, string bass, and so on." No offense, but this in a nutshell expresses my frustration over the many years of listening to loudspeakers. Why not have a speaker that can deliver everything? Every single speaker that I have heard in the past that supposedly were intended to deliver the nuance of an ensemble, etc... well they couldn't even play at a level that remotely came close to what an orchestra can reproduce in those moments I wanted to listen to them, let alone playback rock, country and forget about film.

Completely agree with your response. My 2.2 channel set-up is one to take duties of both music (HDD-based and Tidal Hi-fi) and movie playback (Blu-ray's/UHD's) - sans surrounds and center channel, that is, and this is because it's first and foremost and music system through-and-through and dialed in as such, though very closely followed as a HT ditto. The great thing in this specific situation is that one doesn't exclude the other, meaning its qualities into music reproduction complements the sound I'm looking for with movies as well, and that's going by references of live venues (acoustic as well as amplified) and cinematically more akin to IMAX theatres than regular cinemas. This is realized with main speakers that are 2-way pro cinema speakers from Electro-Voice with a horn MF/HF and dual 15" woofer/mids, and two subs that are 15"-loaded tapped horns (20 cf. volume a piece). This may seem brute at first in a home setting, and it is or certainly can be, but the "secret sauce" that makes it a delicate and nuanced performer to boot is careful implementation and a fully active configuration. Active really makes it more resolved, transparent and less signature sounding - a win-win, if you ask me - and ample displacement and headroom translates sonically into ease and a visceral quality rarely if ever heard with smaller and lower efficiency speakers. Where I've sacrificed a bit with movie playback is giving up on the 10-20Hz range, which may seem preposterous to some, but given select movie titles (and there are not few of them) and very potent sub set-ups with huge displacement and amp power this very low octave can produce shudder effects and pressurization that can be very much felt. Tuning a sub set-up that low however, subjectively at least, takes away some of liveliness and impact of the central bass region, which is enormously important for music as well (hence this being a music set-up predominantly). Still, reproduction down to 20-25Hz at full click is no slouch by any stretch of the imagination. 

The dynamic range of movies is something I cherish wholeheartedly, and I find it to be an important test for one's set-up also in regard to music playback. I'm dialing in the ref. volume with dialogue and where it sounds naturally present, and the rest of the sound spectrum simply revolves around that in a way that makes a movie breath sonically - be it quieter titles or more action laden ones. With Mr. Nolan's latest 'Tenet' offering that's truly LOUD when the action kicks in, and in my listening space boarders "saturation" levels throughout the movie at ref. (per dialogue) volume. I adore Nolan's very conscious approach to sound mixing hearing it really take off as such from 'The Dark Knight' and onwards, and while my adoration includes 'Tenet' it's at the brink I find in its sheer loudness that's more suitably compatible with bigger spacings; at the digital IMAX theatre I saw it the first time around the sound level span seemed to benefit a bit from the large auditorium. At the other dynamic range scale with have most of Disney's home video Blu-ray and UHD releases these last years that are mixed with low ref. volume, timid dynamics and weak bass response - a travesty, really. Any insights on why they've been going this route almost consistently for years now? It may keep soundbars from blowing up, but it sure as h... is an unfortunate benchmark for those of us who care much more about proper dynamic swings, overall presence of presentation and LF prowess. 

Uninhibited dynamics are utterly important with music and not least movies. I own Criterion's Blu-ray of the David Fincher's 'The Game,' and it sports a near field and theatrical mix. I prefer the latter as the more expansive mix that breathes more naturally to me, and therefore I'm happy that they left it there for us to savor in addition to the near field mix. I hope we won't see diminishment with regard to dynamic range to cater, if you would, to the lowest denominator, but will at least uphold the theatrical mix- if nothing else as an option. 

@snbeal

Thank you for your input. Yes I loved the Meridians. Beautiful speakers! I too "dabbled" with Thiel back in the day so not as much recently. I also enjoyed some Revel speakers for a bit too.

To get that level of sound that doesn't need to take up floor space really won my wife over! Which of course is a huge win for me!!!

You are right about needing processor with an active crossover and also needing a lot of amps with a lot of power.

Do you have any recommendations for amps using the Hypex modules?

Trinnov is definitely on the short list of processors as is StormAudio. For a while Datasat was going to be it, but...

Thank you for your thoughtful responses!!! Much appreciated!

Drew

@mijostyn 
I am sorry I missed your post earlier! 

Love all of your advice! I am seriously considering the Trinnov. It really is the state of the art. I have also been looking into StormAudio as well. Datasat used to be king a few years ago and is still fantastic, but since I am buying today I would say Trinnov vs. StormAudio is my main two choices.

I am definitely going to need subwoofers. What I heard a the Wisdom theater was their STS subs and I felt they kept up quite well with the transient response of the planar magnetics.

My dealer is not as much of a fan of the Wisdom speakers and is pushing for JL Fathom. I need to do some more hands on experimentation to hone in on the best sub for my needs.

Best,
Drew

@phusis  I whole heartily agree with your post! I have also argued for years now that BOTH tracks should be present on the Bluray / UHD disc. We should optimize a lower reference level mix for those that prefer it to the more dynamic Theatrical mix. But we should also 100% absolutely keep the original mix intact for those of us who do want that experience!

I can't say for sure what is happening with the Disney tracks, but I do know that they now require a home theater mix that is suitable for streaming due to their new platform. All of the streaming formats require a compressed track. Not nearly as compressed as broadcast standards, but still significantly compressed compared to a theatrical mix.

Something I came to find out a few years back was that MANY times someone else other than the original sound supervisor and re-recording mixers would make the compressed home near field mix.

I encountered this myself accidentally when the film editor asked me to stop by the near field mix that was happening without any of us there to supervise. I stopped by and was shocked at what was happening. People that were not involved with the original creation of the soundtrack were making creative decisions based on their own opinion!

There was an opening scene that involved a Huey helicopter and a character yelling at his platoon. I mentioned TWICE to the director that the DX was being obscured by the Music and SFX and we should raise or lower one or the other. The first time he said - "Duly noted." The second time I knew I had crossed the line when he told me. "I am ok with him being obscured here - the audience gets his intention by his attitude and energy. The actual words are not important in this case. I also hope this is the last time I have to tell you this." Not to mention names, but this director is not a feeble man and can be quite intimidating. We became friends and always joked about that little exchange.

Anyway - what I heard during the near field mix was someone from the studio complaining that they could hear the DX for this very scene. They told the mixer to lower the SFX so they could clearly hear the DX. I said "STOP! What are you doing??!" They explained and I said I nearly lost my life on this very line of DX during the final mix - do you have the director's permission to be making creative changes? If so please proceed, but this is NOT his vision. I pulled out my cell phone to call the director to make sure this was indeed ok and immediately the studio rep said. "No I don't have permission." Then he went on to say - "Well I just think movies are mixed too loud over all."

I then called the Oscar winning mixers that mixed this film and asked them how they would like to proceed with the near field mix and passed that information on to I and the mixer handling the near field and we undid a fair bit of work that had been done.

The studio rep had a lot of technical setup specifications, but when it came to setting a reference level for a mix... he would find the loudest part of the film and adjust it to where he likes to listen. Then he wanted to adjust the entire track to compensate for this. Ultimately compressing the hell out of the track by raising all of the quiet scenes so they could now be heard. I listened to one of these mixes and I guess if i was watching an action film at my grandmas house while baby sitting... it would be great! If I was watching it and wanted any of the theatrical movie going experience, well that was out the window and I might as well rewatch an episode of Murder She Wrote for something a little more dynamic!!!

After that experience I found out that there were many little shops doing home mixes for studios by people that had no knowledge of how or why something was mixed they way it was during the final mix. Besides changing levels, they would often re-pan information to surrounds even add new SFX they liked better. It was the wild west! Now days we push to make sure the same team that creates the final mix stays on to create the near field mix.

Again.... I ramble on and on and on....

Thanks again for your post!!!