Horn based loudspeakers why the controversy?

@whart 

Have you used your Quads with the ML2?

I'm really enjoying the Klipsch Cornwall III.  Rated at 102db efficiency.  I've added a Fostex horn super tweeter to extend the upper frequencies.  The super tweeter sits on a Symposium Svelt shelf which also addresses some midrange resonant frequencies on the cabinet.  The speakers sit on top of a pair of Rollerblock 2+ double-stacked which brings everything into focus and cleans up the low end.

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/Cornwall-III-Spec-Sheet-v03.pdf

A real sleeper in today's market.

One thing I do not particularly like (not that I hate it, but I find it swaying me not to buy) about most modern horn speakers is that the horns are so often made of some kind of plastic but that there is generally no attempt by the manufacturer whatsoever to damp them on the rear side. If you were to walk up to such a horn (the larger the horn the worse the effect) and flick it firmly with your fingernail then you’d instantly get a very good idea of what the horns are actually doing to the sound. I suspect most people are under the impression that the vowel characteristics that are often associated with horns are somehow coming from the shape of the curve or their dimensions, but I don’t think it’s so. I find it most often due to simply being that the horns typically go undamped in most designs.

The real rub for me here is that the reasoning that this effect can and should be dealt with in other aspects of design (crossover design, EQ, placement, or whatever) Completely misses the point. Properly, the vowel sound should be dialed out of the equation as much as possible from the start. You damp it out physically - no more vowel sound, no more problem, right? We don’t as a rule tolerate vowel sounds in box designs, in fact makers regularly go to great lengths to tout that they’ve removed them with careful attention to the cabinets, don’t they? So why are so many makers of horn speakers so seemingly silent on the subject of audible horn resonances - especially as it relates to horn material?

Just my 2 cents though.

But....I suppose makers of box designs may *claim* that they’ve gotten rid of their cabinet resonances by their sheer prowess in wood construction and so forth....only in fact to rely on a lot of help from their crossover design in the final result. So I guess why can’t a horn speaker manufacturer basically do the same really...I dunno.

I think all that is one reason why I eventually moved out of the speaker market and into DIY - once I went open baffle, I found it all much easier for me to get what I really want...and for far less.

@ivan_nosnibor

... We don’t as a rule tolerate vowel sounds in box designs, in fact makers regularly go to great lengths to tout that they’ve removed them with careful attention to the cabinets, don’t they? So why are so many makers of horn speakers so seemingly silent on the subject of audible horn resonances - especially as it relates to horn material?

This has confounded me as well, and yet, perhaps the obvious answer involves failing to direct proper attention towards and financially invest sufficiently into making great horns (one hopes there’s actual knowledge there to be aware of these implications, but the care needed for this to translate into the product itself appears to be in minor demand). As an example JBL has long touted their "Sonoglass" horn material, but going by my similar-ish impressions of several of their models featuring Sonoglass horns it seems the general sonic imprinting generated here (that of a grey-ish and rather "splashy" character, as some rightly puts it) could stem from the horn material used. Sonoglass is by all accounts cheaper, lighter, and easier to manufacture than a, say, machined (and thick-walled) hardwood horn, all factors that weigh in heavily in cost considerations; let’s not fool ourselves into thinking JBL has, in essence, other incentives to use this material, and that anything from hereon is simply "damage control." As a general rule I believe horns are much more sensitive, so to speak, with regard to their implementation, manufacture and need of care to work really well compared to direct radiating speakers, but these are demands that doesn’t sit well in today’s manufacturing market, for obvious reasons (sad they are). As such I suspect really well-sounding horns (all-horns in particular) may be a relative boutique business, certainly compared to the mass market of speakers in general, but I’ll be among the first to acknowledge their outspoken qualities when done right.

@kosst_amojan

The sensation I've always gotten, even from the best horns I've ever heard, is the same sensation I get standing right in front of a trumpet or sax horn. My dad and brother played trumpet. I played sax and electric bass.

In my world that could as well be a compliment to horn speakers, and your experience in playing the saxophone only makes you the better judge for drawing this comparison. I'm quite sure what you're intentionally referring to here is an aspect that to your ears follows horn speakers regardless of the music being played back - i.e.: one that mimics the "shouty" and present sound of a real sax or trumpet - but my takeaway from this (and which I believe you may be at least subconsciously influenced by as well) is the significance of spontaneously comparing speakers to live instruments, and all that could entail. Think about it, and to reiterate; you're comparing live instruments to speakers, horns not least, and this also calls out shared traits such as tonality/timbre, dynamics, uninhibited presence (a sense of ease, you may say), etc. While your intentional takeaway is for this to be negatively fused and support your stance, I'm conversely seeing you being dismayed by a sound that emulates a live acoustic ditto, for the reason mainly being that any comparison made here will be grounded in more than what you're consciously aware of. Speculative and total B.S.? Quite possibly, but it's a potential "the plot thickens" example of how many audiophiles may be less interested in or even repels live acoustic sound (as reproduced by a stereo) than creating their own (and by a whole community supported) hifi-sound.