"I am there" vs. "They are here"


Hi,
all of us in this hobby have heard the exclamation "I'm there" or "they are here!" a counless number of times. Usually these remarks are issued forth when one's audio system has made a sonic leap in the direction of naturalism.
However, "I'm there" and "they are here" are clearly two very different remarks.

Would anyone care to describe in detail what about the sound of a great audio system that inspires the listener to make one remark rather than the other.

Which one is a higher compliment?

Thank you,

David
wonjun
The best I have been able to achieve in my system is the 'window onto another place': A window, about 11 feet wide and 3 feet high, which opens not onto the end of my room but into wherever the performers were. Perhaps this is equivalent to 'they are there'.
Yes Calanctus, the 'window' onto the original performance analogy is conceptually closely related to my "They are there" formulation. The metaphor of the window has often been used to describe the system itself, i.e., how transparent the glass is, how free of distortion it can transmit the image, how large or small it is, etc.

Rx8man: Glad you're where you are if you are, my friend. ;^) My point about 'standardization' has to do with the theoretical necessity for a perfectly complementary encode/decode process to be adopted for both the recording and playback ends of the chain, if you're hoping to closely approach faithfully recreating the impression of being present at the original performance. But beside being totally impractical, IMO it's also fundamentally technically impossible to ever achieve, even on the basis of an all-out, one-off attempt - much less some kind of standardized system applicable for widespread use by sound engineers and music consumers. What we'll always have, to my mind, is what we have now: a haphazard, largely arbitrary, technically chaotic approximation, but one that can be made more than occasionally pleasing, and maybe even slightly reminiscent of some flexible notion about what 'accuracy' might be if you're willing to stretch your imagination.

About your system sounding halfway between "They are there" and "They are here", you're stressing an important point. We can never eliminate a large dose of the "They are here" syndrome from the reproduction, because our systems and rooms always impose themselves inappropriately upon the recreated original signal. Things like acoustic treatment and DSP technology can reduce this undesired effect, but they can't ameliorate it entirely. I've always figured that for even the most scrupulously put-together home systems - well beyond what even most audiophiles (myself included) have, especially in terms of room design - you're still going to be hearing a huge contribution of spurious info superimposed by the playback chain and environment. That's a contribution which has no relation whatsoever to the original performance event, and that remains the same across every recording replayed. It's that constant quality which constitutes the "Here", and we can't ever completely get rid of it.
"They're here" is the mark of good playback.

"I'm There" is the response to great emotional connection.

In my book, the latter is the much stronger compliment.
How do you fit a symphony orchestra in your listening room? Same thing with overloaded marshall stacks? I strive for the "you are there" thingy myself. I echo milkman's sentiments. but in reality what you get is a window into a larger recording venue like Calanctus and Zaikemans suggest. But I think that's a hybrid between "you are there" and "they are here." but I think the hybrid leans towards the former more than that latter. That's where I slightly disagree with Zaikesman. I feel for the "they are here" illusion to work, the performers should ideally feel like they are completely within our room, and not extend behind the rear wall. YMMV.

Thanks for sharing.
I love it! It's Undoubtedly not going to stand up to critical evaliation, but it's vague and charming enough to catch on. Where is there, by the way, and how can we here them as being there unless we're there too, which we're not, since "I am there is not right"? Is the "there' right there in ffront of you, ina virtual stage between the speakers/ But isn't that 'here"? Like I said, beatifully vague.