WILSON AUDIO/ cost vs. value

I purchased the MAXX2's after carefully considering and auditioning a great many competitive products. I auditioned or owned a great many other top o' the line speakers from Aerial, Audio Physic, Kharma, Talon, ProAc etc. There is no pride of ownership value for me as my room is dedicated (Rives) and I rarely entertain strangers. When I do, I don't show the room lest they think me daft.

Every speaker has their strengths, weaknesses and signature traits, as do Wilson speakers.

Unquestionably, from my _experience_ the Wilson speakers rank at or near the top in terms of the apparent care and attention that has gone into their design, fit, finish, packaging and user adjustable performance. The support from the staff has also been impeccable.

Most importantly however, they perform as well or better than my expectations would allow.

Too many people in these forums state negative impressions and opinion as if they have first hand, direct-in home experience, when the truth is they merely heard something at a show or dealer showroom. I've heard countless speakers and systems that sound like crap at shows, but performed extremely well in my home. Wilson speakers are precise, calibrated instruments, and their set up has to be just right, just like any other top performing speaker of their size (speaking of the MAXX2's/X2's).

Expounding negative opinion on performance should at least be qualified by context, as should opinions regarding value-- which often times is literally impossible to judge accurately without visiting the factory, talking to the staff and going over materials, parts lists.

Opinions are great, and the internet provides terrific forums for all to share theirs. I just wish opinions that get tossed around like rotten tomatoes, casting snide remarks and aspersions were accompanied by, oh, just a little persoanl context and responsibility to facts rather than conjecture.

The greatest arbtiter of "value", both intrinsic and percieved, is the resale value of used products being sold on e-bay and AudioGon.

Based on the numbers I see, Wilson is without peer in terms of resale value. Smoke and mirrors? Crunch the numbers.

The selection of any speaker is an intentionally personal pursuit. Internet opinion that seeks to attack a company or anyones _choice_ of a loudspeaker system, better be willing to state specifics, context and comparison instead of short-hand conjecture and second or third hand opinion.

JMHO

Hi Pip, I mean, Macro

Nice history and economics lesson. Outside of the agenda, it's a nice try.

Please tell me of all the speakers you've _personally_ auditioned that are better for less money--as if there could ever be such a thing related to ones _preferences_. And of course you've had a current in home sampling of which Wilson products, when, which models?

The "best"? There's no such thing, and I never stated that. I merely pointed out a market arbiter of value, one of the only "valid" ones available to us, er, snobs/dupes as you accuse. Which is it? If I'm a dupe, that'd make it hard for me to be a snob. :) Cadillac? You really are on a flight of fancy, eh?

You have a point regarding product changes, there have been a number of them the past few years. However, I don't think the recent changes are for Market reasons, rather, from my experience, Wilson speakers have improved dramatically since the Watt 6, which I never would have purchased because of it's IMO forward, analytical character. Nor did I like the original MAXX or Grand Slamm, finding them overly dry in the uper freq's and, well, stiff sounding-- unlike my previous fave, the Audio Physic Calderas.

I believe the Wilson speakers have evolved a great deal, starting with the Sophia, into a very coherent, time accurate line that has found a balance--rich mids, more linear treble, better pitch differentiation (earleir models (6) (5.1)had mid-bass and mid-treble issues).

Are the newer models perfect? Of course not, I can pick nits, as I can after long term audition or ownership of any speaker. Are there "better" speakers for less? Who do you wish to appoint as the arbiter of quality and value? You?
I demur to your stated expertise..

I drive a Toyota Minivan not a caddy, have two little ones and a pretty serious mortgage. I stretched to buy the MAXX2's, stretched to build a room for them (thanks Richard) and get the rest of my gear, Atmashere MA2 amps, Audio Aero Prestige CD, racks, room treatments etc.

I've a right to my choices and aknowledge they might not be for everyone. I'm not the one on these boards shouting "scam" and calling people "dupes".

There are lot's of great, maybe even better sounding systems that can be had for less $ than mine. But I'm really happy with my choices, and it bothers me to see contextless posts, slamming what I think are decent products with little to no context or responsibility.

Your post sums up my previous points regarding the net, and the fact that anyone is free to target and defame, without risk.

It's ok to disagree, it's ok to have an opinion that is contrary. Open dialogue is fine. Your sarcastic comments exist outside that realm.

You're the one with the "Cadillac" metaphorically. Enjoy it.

Bartokfan,

I had no problem with your opinion or comments, I was responding to general comments in the thread, not you specifically.

Best regards.

Miklorsmith,

Nice call. I like the Dali and Devore speakers too, based on what I've heard at shows.

Keep in mind, that the head units of the Maxx2 and X2's need to be precisely calibrated to listener distance and height, so it's possible-in any "dealer showroom" demo, that the performance might not gel based on set up.

That said, speaker preference is more of a personal choice than _any_ other product in this hobby, and everyone has a different opinion. Many think they have it "figured out" or think they can intelligently dump on products they don't own and have scant experience with. That's a lot of what I see in this thread, outside the last couple posts.

The people that have it "figured out" are those that follow their own path, while understanding that there is no "best" or "greatest value", and don't judge companies or hobbyists because "they know better". Largely, the "I'm smarter than you" crowd are the people with the least experience and the greatest need to pad their ego.

The rest of us are just hobbyists with an open mind--and too often--an open wallet. :)

Tvad,

Nicely put, my point exactly, approximately 50 posts ago.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1149015570&openflup&30&4#30

Thanks for re-affirming it!

Regards,

Grant

>>>"No one is bashing Wilson, just trying to put things in proper perspective." <<<

I'm still chuckling at that comment. Obviously, you haven't read the thread through, or decided to skip over the posts that were full on baseless attacks, numbering at least a dozen.

MacroJack did a good job of describing basic economics and margins within general commercial enterprise--not high end electronics or speakers however. He wholly skipped many fundamental equations. Using gross anecdotes and generalities is no smoking gun nor evidence of poor, moderate or good value. What the ad says can stand or fall on it's own merit. Based on Wilson's history, standard of quality, incredible used market value and top-line dealer support, I'd say the ad is more true than not.

It's easy to take on-line anonymous pot shots. Another thing altogether to put your procuct, business, reputation and _word_ on the line for any Tom, Dick or Harry to scrutinize or belittle.

Dave's done it for years. Who among AudioGon rock throwers cares to claim the same?

Thought so.

Bartokfan, I share your taste in music.

That you heard a Wilson speaker in a N.O showroom and disliked the sound is no surprise. Some dealer set ups of Wilson speakers are sub-optimal. Was it Wilson Audio (no relation) or Audio Resource where you heard the speakers? Can't recall which carries the line.

>>>btw you do not see post much in the amp forum, beacuse everyone will have his particular taste and amps have a much greater range of characteristics. Ecah can pick and chose as he pleases.<<<

Please tell me your kidding. I don't think I'm out on a limb in stating that speaker/room type/setup are _by far_ the greatest arbiters of the end result in sound quality in _any_ 2 ch. system.

Amp/speaker interface is a distant second--but that's a shortsighted analogy as all factors, source. pre, power, signal etc are important-- but speaker room/set-up are #1 with a bullet. Screw that up and nothing else matters.

I'm not saying Wilson should be for everyone, but it does strike me-- the number of people with negative things to say that have _no_ direct experience with the Wilson speakers other than stating "I heard it at a "dealer" or a "show" as if that constitutes valid opinion compared to in home audition.

I'm not a Wilson defender. I have enjoyed a great many speaker designs in my day and would never critisize others choices or imply anyone is a dupe or has more money than sense in their speaker choice, ---yet that is exactly what is occurring here, with posts inferring the choice of a Wilson speaker is status related--what absolute nonsense.

With so much business in speakers, electronics and cables going to China, Taiwan etc from the US, I'm surprised there's so little latitude given, by so many, for a US company that keeps everything in house. If anything, we should keep that in perspective. Do you have _any_ idea how much it costs for a US company to keep production stateside versus overseas? I do.

You want Chinese made product translated to speakers, keep it up and you'll have your wish.

Compromised Chinese made products at inflated US prices. Think I'm ill informed? I've got a set of faux US set of Chinese golf clubs to sell ya.

JMHO

Grant
Shunyata Research