Why the woofer moves badly when playing certain LPs


Hello. First greeting.
My turntable is Pro-Ject The classic, Phono is Lejonklou Gaio2.4 and Cartridge is AT150sa.

However, I am having problems with my woofer moving badly when playing certain LPs.
Generally, this is not the case with the older, dusty LPs of the 80's, but rather with the record just new released LPs.

I want to get help from someone who knows why this is happening.
Sorry for my broken English.
Thank you very much.

starbusters

Showing 3 responses by ish_mail

I see a periodic pattern in the woofer oscillations: every so often there’s a slight pause or dip in the amplitude of the oscillations and then the pattern repeats. The video doesn’t allow a precise clocking, but the pattern repeats roughly every 2 seconds. Given the observed warp in the record, I’m going to speculate that the pattern repeats 33 1/3 times per minute. Rather than an instability at the tonearm/cartridge resonant frequency, my guess is that the warp is triggering a tracking error in which the cartridge "bounces" along the groove without loosing contact altogether. This would imply suboptimal reproduction at all frequencies, not just the observed woofer misbehavior.

If this theory is correct, a rumble filter or adjusting the tonearm/cartridge resonant frequency would not correct the tracking problem (although I expect the latter would alter the frequency of the bounces). A first test of this theory would be to observe the woofer and count the number of pattern repetitions in one minute (should be about 33). A further test would be to increase tracking force and see if that reduces the amplitude of the woofer’s oscillations (might not eliminate them). Beyond tracking force adjustment, you might try adding a peripheral ring record weight. That should significantly flatten this relatively modest warp and add some extra flywheel stability to your rig.

BTW: Adjusting tonearm/cartridge resonance is worthwhile in any case.
@mijostyn I generally agree with your criticisms of periphery clamps, especially the inconvenience factor. That being said, it's possible to select a p clamp that is heavy enough to flatten many warps yet light enough to prevent adverse effects on the bearing. I used to have a modest Clearaudio table with a CMB magnetic bearing. I added a relatively light p clamp, and it generally improved sound, especially timing, including with flat records. Heavier clamps would have caused the magnetic bearing to bottom out; that was the limiting factor for clamp weight on that bearing design. I never detected or expected any adverse effects on the CMB bearing, and inconvenience aside, it was a good improvement for that table.

I agree that reflex clamps are a better solution for flattening warps, but they are not easily available to the OP w/o an expensive upgrade. In fact, my current table is a fairly expensive model with a threaded reflex clamp (if I interpret that terminology correctly). I have no experience with vacuum clamping systems; their complexity and noise issues, though perhaps manageable, scared me off.

I became quite skilled at quickly positioning and removing the periphery clamp on the old Clearaudio, but I must admit I don't miss that ritual at all.
@atmasphere Thanks for your comment. I enjoy reading your posts on various forums and consider you an expert on things audio. So it's with respect that I disagree with your comment: 
This statement is incorrect. If the mechanical resonance is corrected the amplitude of the woofer movement will be decreased.
The resonance mechanism you and others propose involves forced vibration in which some source of periodic excitation acts close enough to the resonant frequency of the tonearm/cartridge to excite resonant response. This is a plausible explanation, although it doesn't explain the noticeable discontinuity in the woofer oscillations, roughly (exactly?) once per revolution, in the video. In other words, I see two distinct periods in the video. The shorter period corresponds to the woofer oscillations, the longer period corresponds to the very regular disruption of the woofer oscillations at about 0.5 Hz.

The mechanism I'm proposing doesn't involve resonance. The warp acts like a mild ski jump that imparts a vertical acceleration to the cartridge/tonearm once per revolution --- enough to flex the cantilever but not enough for the stylus to lose contact. If the tracking force is too light, the cartridge will "bounce" repeatedly in the groove with the cantilever acting as a spring. The bounces generate several cycles of woofer oscillations until they are disrupted by the next pass over the warp and the process repeats.

I'll confess to having had exactly this problem early on with my current turntable. The cartridge and tonearm were carefully matched, I used a microscope to align the cartridge, tracking force was carefully set, and the table was well isolated and featured very low rumble. Nonetheless, the sound wasn't all that good. Then, when playing a particular LP, I noticed my subwoofer undergoing oscillations very similar to those in the OP's video. I at first assumed some form of resonance was causing the problem, but after several days, I couldn't find a cause. Then I noticed a relation between a modest warp in the record and a repeating pattern in the oscillations, very similar to the OP's video. But then why was my expensive tonearm and cartridge tracking so poorly?

The answer had to do with a shortcut I developed in operating the cueing lever that worked fine on my old table but didn't fully release the cueing support on my new table. That last bit of support reduced the effective tracking force. All it took to fix the problem was to fully depress the cueing lever. Subwoofer oscillations gone and sound quality vastly improved.

Sorry for the long post. Can anyone else see the periodic disturbances of the oscillations in the video?