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VPI Scout with Grado Master - but what next?

I've got an old original VPI Scout with a wood body Grado Master HO MM cartridge on it. I'm using the phono stage in my McIntosh C2200 tube preamp, and pushing the whole thing with a McIntosh MC402 solid state amp. I listen to Jazz mostly.

The Grado Master is about eight years old now, so I'm starting to shop around for a replacement. I had a Grado Sonata in it originally but it was pretty thin and boring sounding and didn't track very well - the Master has been a really wonderful cartridge. However it's a lot better with Jazz than it is with Rock. Rock, even excellent 1/2 speed master recordings, sound forward and lack slam.

So I'd like my Rock to...well rock, but jazz is my main thing, and I'm worried that if I buy a Dynavector or Soundsmith based on recommendations from folks who listen to Rock exclusively, I'll wind up with my Steely Dan bringing down the house, but Leroy Vinnegar sounding like Jack Bruce and a stack of Marshalls. This would be bad. Anyone
lemoco

Showing 4 responses by photon46

photon46
1,076 posts
 
In my experience, I suspect your cartridge is not the problem. I had both of the cartridges you use and a VPI Scout. Lack of bass slam was the last thing I'd complain about. If anything, bass slam and general low end fullness overshadowed the rather reticent high end of the Grados. Your description of the Grado sound is pretty much the inverse of what most people hear when using their cartridges.The first thing I'd do is get that VPI off of the shelf you're using (if your pictures reflect your current setup accurately) and site the turntable on an isolated maple plinth. The coupling of additional mass to the VPI made for much better low frequency response in my system. The VPI's sound is very dependent on what it is sitting on. I'd also see about upgrading the phono stage as well, that could well be a factor in what you are hearing. Maybe other owners of Mac gear could chime in on the relative strength of Mac built in phono stages.
photon46
1,076 posts
 
Just to be clear, it is more than isolation that impacts the sound of the Scout. The mass and the resonant quality or resonant frequency of whatever the Scout is sitting on impacts the sound greatly. Wall mount shelves I've seen use thin MDF which is not going to help your problem. Now if you integrate a thick wood plinth into the wall mount shelf, you're on the right track. Although I've not heard one myself, another option that some Scout owners have reported good results with is the Ginko Audio Cloud 9 isolation base.
https://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=494
photon46
1,076 posts
 
Hifiharv, I noticed your remarks about gain differences between the Dynavector and the Master not seeming to translate into noticeable differnces. I found the stated gain of .5mv for the Grado Master to be very optimistic, at least when compared to the gain of similar rated outputs from Ortofon cartridges. The .5mv Ortofons seem to put out twice the voltage of the Grado even though they're rated the same.
photon46
1,076 posts
 
Oops, my bad. I forgot the fact that Lemoco was discussing the 5.0mv HO Grado. My Statement Master1 is the .5mv. model. My previous Sonata was a HO 5.0mv. model and I don't remember there being such a disparity between its output and other 5.0 mv cartridges I own. As to how I measured or determined the output of cartridges in my system, it's just a matter of familiarity with a given lp and where I set my volume control. When I'd switch from the Grado to an Ortofon rated the same output, I'd have to always lower the gain setting on my RCM Sensor phono preamp to maintain the same volume settings on my line stage preamp. I tried experimenting with resistance as well to see if that was a factor, but the Grado is relatively insensitive to loading in my experience. Even the Grado factory says not to worry too much if you have use a lower resistance than the 47k. specified.
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