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USB to DAC questions

Well, yes I have gone through many stages of what route I think I want to go for my new system... coming all the way from using a Zune for a player.

Now, from doing some reading on here, it sounds like the cheapest way (im on a super budget) to get great sound from my computer is to either go with a squeezebox or run USB to a USB-DAC. I was sold on the squeezebox... but it looks like I could pick up a used DAC for about the same price and have superior sound quality. Err, a DAC would beat a squeezebox in full a/d mode, right?

Alright, so I feel loaded with questions about a computer hookup that I didn't see any clear-cut answers to...

First, when we are talking about hooking up a USB-DAC with a USB cable... are we talking about just running the cable straight from one of the built-in motherboard USB ports... or are we talking about running it out of some additional hardware like a sound card with USB out. From what is sounded like, it was just one of the stock USB ports... but I need to make sure of this.

Second, most people here seem to favor MAC to output their USB signal from. Buying another computer would be WAY out of my budget. I am planning on running it from my workstation PC which is running XP because all my editing programs in Vista ran terribly. Yet, dual-booting to Vista just to have good audio would be ok as I already own a copy. So... just to be clear, there would be a big difference between XP and Vista when running USB out? It would be ideal to NOT have to dual-boot... but I will if there is that big of a difference. Also, has anyone been able to compare Vista sound with Mac sound?

Third, can someone elaborate on the difference between a NOS DAC and an over-sampling DAC?

Fourth, how would the Outlaw RR2150 receiver with a built-in USB DAC compare to a separate USB DAC paired with a separate amplifier?

And the last that I can think of for now... Does anyone have any opinions of the Musiland Md-10 DAC? I only ask because there is one listed on here in the classifieds at a price close to what I want to pay.

Whew, ya that was a loaded posting. I hope you guys can help me out with these questions. Thanks a ton.
djembeplay

Showing 6 responses by ckorody

ckorody
643 posts
 
USB standard is 15ft. (Get the Belkin gold plated - nice cable)

From there you can add USB multipliers or better yet add a Opticis USB fiber optic cable and go as far as you want - but the rig will cost you about $150 with an improved battery pack which is out of scale at this time

I have not compared Scott's stuff and the Benchmark. If you are DYI able the kits are probably a good way to go
ckorody
643 posts
 
Hi - hard core Mac guy here. Yes in theory the laptop and the mega tower will sound the same since the point of the exercise is to get the data off of the drive so it can be "reconstituted" into music away from the PC.

If you have a built in USB port (even 1.1) that's all you need. Do be aware that if you are doing a lot of things at once you may have some port sharing issues resulting in drop out or burps - easy to fix, stop working and listen =)

Don't know squat about all the hoops MSFT puts you through but have read a few million posts here and on AA. The net, net is you have to get by the ASIO/Kmixer quagmire to get anything decent at all. Not sure the XP vs Vista issue here , you probably know this from your none too happy experience with your editing software.

iTunes which is the weapon of choice for a Mac, does not seem to perform as well in the PC environment. The preferred mix is EAC for ripping and FooBar. However this requires considerable expertise and research on the part of the individual to optimize.

Do take a look over on the Audio Asylum PC Forum.

A very popular line of inexpensive DACs is built by Scott Nixon. They don't last long when they come up here. Hate to be brutal but if you are squeezing the trailing edge of the price/performance envelope I would not bother with oversampling. Less is more - first and foremost what you need is the best Burr Brown DAC chip you can get.

BTW you can oversample in software or hardware - all the usual trade-offs apply.
ckorody
643 posts
 
I wouldn't take one bad (or good) review on anything too seriously. As noted I have no first hand experience with Nixon's gear - but I can tell you for sure that when it comes up for sale, it flies off.

You might check headfi dot com and the Audio Asylum PC Forum

Here is the thing to keep in mind about USB. USB not only carries data, it carries power from the computer to the peripheral. That's why the cable is only good for about 15 feet before you need a repeater.

The Opticis, being fiber does not carry power. Instead you add a power pack at the end. Most of us like to replace the standard wall wart power pack with a 5v USB battery to avoid any possibility of switching noise from the power supply. You can listen then decide.

I for one think that the Opticis sounds better, though this is a subject of some debate. (And I have never A/Bed with a 30' USB repeater rig) What cannot be debated is the ease of working with it and the total electrical isolation it provides between computer and DAC.
ckorody
643 posts
 
First USB is ubiquitous. Meaning that it is friggin everywhere on everything. Billions of USB ports and devices out there. Obviously implementation is a concern but at the end of the day it either works or it doesn't work.

When you start to think about all this, you need to get your head around this idea of a world market that is all based on standards - no one can sell crap that doesn't work... and outsourcing and out assembly is the name of the game - not just for price but for speed and flexibility and shipping considerations...

As far as why people develop for a Mac it is most likely not because of the USB implementation. Developing for Mac means walking on about 95% of the market. Unless the application is so specialized that the customer is going to buy a computer just to run it.

Much more likely that the Mac OS offers other benefits as a platform, certain APIs etc. You need to take that kind of stuff with a big grain of salt - the Blue Side is filled with misinformation and urban myths.

Don't know about hi and lo quality ports. There are two standards USB1.1 and USB2.0 Difference is in bandwidth and rate. For audio 1.1 is fine

The other difference I am aware of is that not all USB ports have sufficient power for all units. For instance the Mac keyboard has USB ports but they won't run everything - you get a warning and then you move back to the tower.

Hard to say if Leopard will deliver better audio then Tiger. You'll do just fine with Tiger.

From what I have read, though it handles the drivers differently, Vista is not a particular improvement on XP in the audio space. But its all what you're used to - and what else you want to do with the machine.

Audio playback doesn't take much computational power, lots of people use their oldest machine as a music server and save the horsepower for where they need it.
ckorody
643 posts
 
Trying to record uncompressed video is a big drive problem and USB - while cheap and ubiquitous - is not fast enough to support it. There is nothing more I/O intensive then video.

Not to razz your buddy but a quick Google suggests that the camera is not ready for prime time... Clever idea, funky, buggy software says one review.

Install - and everything else on a Mac - is very straightforward. Tiger was nasty so make sure you buy a unit with a Tiger OS installed. Most of the hassle is upgrading software to take advantage of each new OS. This consists of clicking Download, the Install. Unless its Adobe stuff and you need passwords. I think you will find pretty much everything about a Mac easier and more intuitive.

As far as next moves. Free advice - you get what you pay for - bag the Andromeda no matter how deep the discount.

Better IMHO to do less better... You can run DAC to power amp and control it from the computer just fine. It's not the system sounds that get you - its the stupid stuff from the Internet that comes torching in when you click on a site that has some Flash into that gets you.

No discussion about speakers here...

Yeah, do an integrated - chances are you can get one for the same money - take a look at the Chinese stuff - a lot of bang for the buck. Or do something in a gainclone or even a Trends package of USB DAC and amp trendsaudio dot com

So dude you have done an awesome job thinking this through. You are done. Go do and have fun
ckorody
643 posts
 
The fun starts after you hook it all up - I know you crave certainty but there is a certain alchemy to bringing together a bunch of components into a great sounding system that makes you nod your head and tap your feet.

Don't even try to judge it until everything has been installed and run in together for about 100 hours. That's when you'll start to get a feeling for what you have.

Do spend a good amount of time fiddling with speaker placement - a lot of times it is a game of an inch or two to lock things in. Also try to get all your components on solid support, try to route your wires clear of the AC cords etc. And get an enhanced wall duplex when one comes up (PorterPort, Furutech, Oyaide are all names that you will see come up frequently at reasonable prices)

As you get to know your system you will hear the results of these changes - which is why you want to take your time and make them one at a time. Some things won't matter at all, some things will completely change your system (good or bad)

With that done, you can start trying different ICs, power cables, speaker cables and components (tube rolling falls somewhere in between)

Enjoy and keep reading to expand your knowledge
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