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Upgrade bug - advice on amp or preamp upgrade from Ayre for Revel speakers?

Hi all, looking to tap in to the collective experience of the forums.  My system has evolved nicely over the years.  Most recently I changed out my Thiel CS2.4s for Revel Ultima Studio2s. I’ve had them in place for about 9 months and am enjoying the heck out of them. The rest of my system is comprised of a Linn Akurate DS into Ayre K-5xe into Ayre V-5xe.  Transparent Audio balanced interconnects and power cords.  My musical preferences are primarily informed by my background as a musician (jazz) - I love live, palbable, feeling sound.  I love the wood of a bass, the way a kick drum can either pop you in the chest (ala Tony Williams) or convey subtle timbre changes (Jack DeJohnette). I love the splat of a great trumpeter (Tom Harrell, Woody Shaw...) and the thrill of colors a tenor sax can provide (Brecker, Trane, Berg...).  As a pianist, I am keenly focused on accurate reproduction that is nuanced enough to let me hear the very different touches of my favorite players (Mulgrew Miller, Kenny Barron, David Kikoski...). And I find music most gratifying when rooted by a firm and true to live conveyance of bass.  

My my current system conveys much of what I love, but of late I’m wondering if a more powerful amp might provide “more”.  I don’t need more volume, but if I had one nagging suspicion it’s that the Ayre combination doesn’t grip the bottom end as much as it could and at times appears a tad bit lean sounding.  Alternatively, could it be a preamp solution?  I demoed BAT about ten years ago while there was still a dealer in my area.  At the time I sort of fell in love with the sound, but ultimately felt Ayre was a better path at the time.  I could probably extend $5 to $7k at this time.  A few thoughts would be:  Amps (Pass 250.8, Levinson 532h, BAT VK-600, Classe CA M600, Bel Canto Ref600, others?).  If Preamp is the right way to go (BAT 32se or 42, ARC, Levinson 326s, others). Or am I crazy and should I stick with what I have and be appropriately grateful?

I really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions from those with relevant experience.
miles_trane

Showing 4 responses by miles_trane

miles_trane OP
12 posts
 
Thanks all for the helpful comments and suggestions!

Jafant - the Thiels were my first investment, and I listened to dozens of amps and preamps before selecting the Ayre line. The combination did a ton really well.  Imaging and PRAT were particularly good.  The system was a bit lean in the lower end, and at times a smidge rough in high frequencies, but those were minor qualms compared to all they did right. 

Init -I am not familiar with the Vincent gear but will definitely check it out.  Thanks for your perseverance!

Good suggestions on upgrading the Ayre line as well.  This is a total aside, but anyone have insight into the future of Ayre post Charles?  I still grimace when I think of what happened to Thiel after Jim passed...

Soix - one of the things I’m toying with is picking up an Arc REF3 as a first step, then replenishing the war chest for an amp purchase next year.  I will try to check out VAC (which I know is very highly regarded) and Sachs (which is new to me!). 

Thanks again!!
miles_trane OP
12 posts
 
Atmasphere - thanks for your suggestion and thoughts.  I did hear a high efficiency / low power system a few years ago that was very impressive (at Deja Vu Audio in DC area). I could definitely see going down that path. At the time I think it was a Manley integrated driving proac speakers. For now, I’m still pretty smitten with the revels.

I’ve got a chance to audition an Arc ref 5se next week at home. Will see how that does.  The good news is that the Ayre k-5xe is still a very nice piece of gear, but this will at least let me get a sense for the different sounds and approaches. 
miles_trane OP
12 posts
 
Robd2 - I'm using the music wave Ultra line for interconnects from the Linn DS to the preamp and the Ayre (Cardas) interconnect from the pre to the amp.  I'm using MW Ultra speaker cables - which I found to be a meaningful improvement over the analysis plus silvers I was using before.  In your view, do the Ultra's fall in the category you described?  I leave the preamp on all the time, but the Amp gets powered down during night, but is left on all day.
miles_trane OP
12 posts
 

Sorry for the delay between postings but I wanted to have ample time to listen to the ARC Ref 5se before posting initial impressions. This is not going to be in depth or detailed solely because I believe I lack the broader experience of listening to hundreds of systems and ‘reviewer-like’ linguistics.

 

I have now had the unit installed for roughly 6 days and have around 25 hours on it. Listening impressions have been formed from a variety of music – jazz, classical (mostly symphonic and concerti), Americana / folk, and a bit of pop / rock. In truth, I was somewhat disappointed in the first couple of days. It sounded fine, but to my ears did not constitute an earth shattering difference from the Ayre K-5xe. That is probably a reflection on the quality of the Ayre design – and not necessarily a knock against ARC. It is a broadly similar basis for presentation. Both are accurate and fast, image well, and have the ability to unconsciously realize that your foot has been tapping away for several minutes.

 

The third night was my first extended listening session. I enjoyed it, but my initial impressions were unchanged. After the house settled down, I put on the excellent recording of Brahm’s violin concerto by Lisa Batiashvili. Then something strange happened. Lost in my thoughts during the Allegro section, something got me and out of nowhere my eyes started watering. Somehow the music started touching my emotionally much more than I can previously recall from a recorded performance. This is the first time that has ever happened to me. I was emotional mush by the end of the Adagio. Night after night I have had similar experiences. Last night it was a very cheesy recording that choked me up – Ron Isley singing Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head. (I am truly embarrassed at having admitted that in a public forum).

 

There are lots of unaccounted variables at play. Largest is that perhaps having a new component in the system has forced me to listen more carefully, ergo my emotional connection. But this didn’t happen after I upgraded speakers. Maybe its because the weather has been so bleak. Maybe it’s the ARC. I dunno – but I sure like what is happening.

 

With a bit more listening in my belt there are a few things I have noticed about the presentation that are different. I have also done my best to purge from my mind the reviews and impressions from others that I have read. 1) There is clearly a much larger depth to the soundstage (front to back). This comes across in nearly everything I play (currently listening to Oscar Peterson’s Blues Etude – and the hi hat is absolutely a couple feet behind the snare and higher. 2) There is slightly less glare to the highs. Recordings that before had a couple of piercing or shrill moments no longer convey that. 3) There is more ‘bounce’ to music. I’m more aware of rhythmic pulses (be it listening to a soloist spool up the orchestra on Rach 3 or listening to a good bass player sit right on top of the beat while the drummer is squarely on it). It is more propulsive and exciting.

 

Lastly, to put context on the above, I would characterize the above differences as being a 15% or so difference from what the Ayre provides, not a 50% or 80% change. The exception being the emotional connections – that is more binary and something I can’t figure out.

 

Greg
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