Tubes vs Solid State - Imaging, Soundstaging, 3D


I have limited experience with tubes having had a couple tube amps with Gold Lion KT88s and EL34s. The majority of amps I have owned have been solid state. In my experience, SS always seems to image more sharply and offer the deepest, clearest field.

Is this common?
128x128michaelkingdom

Showing 3 responses by newbee

Not in my experience, but the use of words such as imaging, soundstaging, 3d, as well as your terms "image more sharply and offer the deepest, clearest field" are open to diverse interpertations often based on totally different and not necessarily revelatory audio experiences.

I have found SS components in general can create a square(ish) wave which as it relates to the rise time can create a dynamic (impactful) sound. This can create the sharpness effect you mention, however the back side of the wave when correspondingly sharp, as it often is, creates a sense of clarity at the expense of natural decay and renders the sense of sterility that many notice with SS (as opposed to tubes). Your observations may be correct as far as they go but I would think that what you are hearing may not have as 'natural' a sound as I, and I think other tube-o-philes would prefer.

I have not had the fortune of hearing SS create the 'depth of image' you have experienced. I don't mean to be offensive but I think perhaps your experience with 'depth of image' may either be limited by exposure, or equipment/synergy/set up, or broad base acquired listening skills. Apart from liquidity this is one of the things for which tubes are prized.

IMHO.
What JMCgrogan2 sez, except in my experience some power tubes are more linear in tone than others. With those more 'linear' tubes, such as the GL KT88's or SED 6550's I would agree that small tubes can make a greater difference than the two power tubes would make on their own. But with the SED KT88s, which are not so linear, i.e. increased upper bass and extended highs, small tubes matching is essential, as is amp matching. I've used SED KT88s as well as SED 6550's, SED EL34's, and SED 6L6GC's for some years and while I really enjoy the KT88's when they work (as they do now in one of my amps) as often I've not been able to dial them in using other amps, especially those with a more modern design ('neutral' tone, such as ARCs etc). I know nothing about your amps but I didn't care for the KT88's at all in my Cary mono's, but found the 6550's quite acceptable.

If you want a crystal clear toned linear tube, if you can use it, you might find the SED 6L6GC to your liking. It lacks the power of the 6550/KT88 and the mid-range warmth of the EL34, but it has clarity in spades through out the FR.

BTW, what kind of speakers are you using? Do you feel you have maximized your set up opportunities so that they are positioned to sound their best. In a 'dark' sounding room I can imagine that a tubed amp/speaker combo might sound less energized and a SS amp sound better, especially if you speakers are voiced on the warm side of neutral.
Atmasphere, Thanks for your explanation. I'm not much of a technician, but I'm curious about the effect of rise and decay times in amps and how they might affect sonics. I recall a time when the ability to reproduce a square wave was the holy grail of (SS) amps, but later some designers were finding that proper attention to the decay time was important and too fast of a decay could cause a sense of loss of low level detail. Accurate? Or just sales BS to justify a design which couldn't replicate a square wave? Or is this apples v oranges?

Can you comment. Thanks......