True or False?


The following is a common sentiment from some who claim to be audiophiles.

If you hear something but can’t measure it, you only think you heard a difference.

 

This notion is also common among people who claim to possess an accomplished understanding of audio, especially when achieving a high level of performance for a minimal investment.

So who’s right? On the one hand we have Objectivists who claim if you can’t measure it, you can’t possibly hear it or if you do, its expectation bias and self delusion. Are these people correct? Do they get as good as a sound, or better for far less money by ignoring cables, power cords, mechanical isolation, basically any accessory that many have found to dramatically improve performance despite a lack measurements? Do those who dismiss expensive digital to analog converters as being no better than rather common digital components with decent measurements get just as high a performance level as those of us with MSB and DCS? Do people who claim it’s all about finding perfect speaker placement, do these people outperform those of us with systems that cost multiples more than what they pay (Who also pay close attention to speaker placement as well as everything else)? Or do those of us who pay attention to cables— digital, analog, and power, what we set our components on top of, how we place our speakers, acoustics, and tweaks, expensive DACs and the like, do we get better sound? Who’s right? And how do we ultimately determine sound quality?

 

 

 

128x128ted_denney

Showing 12 responses by ted_denney

Reading some responses above, I need to point something out. Nowhere in my original post do I say anything of this being an either or where acoustics are concerned. I actually state that along with paying attention to cables and other accessories, we also pay attention to acoustics. Lots of attention and that also includes running rudimentary programs like REW. This is how great systems are made, by paying attention to everything.

there are few exceptions like Ethernet switches and cables; saying that ethernet cables and switches can make a difference in the sound, engineeringly and electrically nonsense
 

Are you sure? 

Yeah, you’re wrong. Completely wrong. A lot of products that you would claim make no difference, like ethernet switches and ethernet cables, make a significant sonic difference. All you have to do is listen. Exactly what this hobby is all about.

Astroturf, I noticed you don’t have a picture of your stereo, why am I not surprised? And your 25 years as an electrical engineer, does not disapprove the fact it’s clear as day to hear the effect of digital cables, and other things you fail to grasp. High End audio is subjective at the end of the day.

You guys prattling on about measurements, did you actually read my original post? Or is this just a reflexive, triggered reaction? The question isn’t measurements versus no measurements, or anti-measurement. The question is, do people who do everything, acoustics, measurements, and things like cables, accessories and higher end electronics for which there is not a sophomoric suite of measurements that prove anything, do we get better sound when we pay attention to everything versus guys who only address what can be measured and ignore everything else?

@frogman  I understand your point, however I think most people are missing or not reading my original post. They see measurements and immediately assume, this is pro-measurement versus anti-measurement. Nothing could be further from the point of this post. My question is straightforward, do audiophiles who pay attention to everything, measurements, and what they hear, as well as considering products like cables, isolation for mechanical vibration, expensive digital to analog converter‘s, lots of things for which we hear a difference, but for which there is not strong correlation to measurement, do such audiophiles get better sound than those who only pay attention to measurements, and disregard everything else? That’s the point of this conversation.

Personally, I draw the line at stuff for which I can see no scientific rationale  - and which consequently can't be measurably quantified. 
 

Than do you ignore power cords, digital cables, isolation platforms and the like? If so, you can’t possibly have a high-performance stereo by modern standards. Modern high-performance audio take cables and other factors that affect sound into account, and this is the main reason why we have a significant increase in fidelity over the past 20 years.

The latest in a series of naval gazing threads from the OP

My series of posts serve to expose bad players who give bad advice, and should be ignored where matters of high-performance audio are concerned.

I do use many measurements to decide if I am interested in a product. For example: Speaker impedance, sensitivity. Amps- power rated into 4 ohm/ 8ohm.

Exactly correct. Measurements will tell you if something can work, if it has the potential to work based on your system requirements. However when two or more competing widgets meet a basic threshold, measurements will not tell you which component will sound best in your system. For that we listen. Simple.