Talon Khorus question


Why is it that there are so many Talon Khoruses being put on sales at such very low price, around 5,000-6000 USD. All of them seemed to be very new(less than 2 years) or even brand new. Is there something that seriously bother the owners of these supposely fine speakers?
suchtan

Showing 5 responses by djjd

I assume you are asking this question out of genuine curiosity (as opposed to, say, trying to discredit Talon products by posting an improper implication out of some unstated and self-serving interest). So I will give you some of my thoughts on your question. Up front I will say I am not affiliated in any way with Talon or any Talon dealer. I too have been a little puzzled by the recent Khorus sale prices since this speaker lists for $12600-14000 new (depending on when they were bought, finish, etc.). There is, however, a very high mark-up on most high-end gear (Talon or otherwise), and I see a lot of different speakers, amps, etc. selling for 50% or so of MSR (even new stuff like Genesis speakers and SF preamps being offered here on Audiogon). Thus, the handful of recent Khorus prices don't strike me as that unusual, especially for used/demo gear. I haven't seen any Khorus selling for $5000 as you claim, but I have seen some pairs selling for between $5800(firm) and $7500 over the past few months. Two or three of these were dealer demos, presumably being sold cheap to clear out last year's stock. I think there was also a dealer's dutch auction for two pairs of Khorus a few weeks ago, but as you know auction prices are not good indicators of fair-market value (especially for esoteric hi-fi gear). A few other Khoruses appeared to be offered for sale by private owners. I bought one of those pairs after a 4 hour audition. The seller told me his wife had found out how much spent on the speakers and when she got PO'ed, he had to sell them quickly. I'll add that I originally went to audition this person's Talon Roc subs and wasn't interested in buying the Khorus. But after spending a few hours with the Khorus I found they were much better in almost every respect than the speakers I had been using (Martin Logan reQuests). Therefore, I bought the Khorus along with the Rocs. I can't explain the other Khorus prices since I don't have enough info about the condition of the speakers, seller's motives, etc. My guess would be Talon is a new company, and people are hesitant to lay out a lot of cash for a product that hasn't yet been reviewed by one of the major rags. Accordingly, the audio-nervosas who bought last year's "hot product" and want to move on to something else this year are probably having to sell them cheap because the demand for the Khorus hasn't grown that strong yet. When demand goes up, as I'm sure it will, the prices will surely rise. There is also the possibility that the .com crash has forced some people to sell some of their newly aquired gear at a loss. Another factor could be the Khorus' glacially slow break-in -- a few of the Khorus owners may not have had the patience to wait 500 hours for these speakers to get into their true form. I've also noticed the Khorus are very sensitive to what feeds them; perhaps one or two people selling their Khorus may have found these speakers didn't work well in their systems, so they decided to sell the speakers rather than swap-out other components. In any case, I've had my Khorus for several months now, they're broken-in, and I think they are exceptional. I haven't noticed anything "wrong" with them, but I have notice a lot that's "right" with them -- particularly their ability to resolve low-level details (far better than the electrostatic reQuests, touted to be a "high resolution transducer" by ML), their bass performance, their sound-stage width, depth and layering (even with casual speaker placement), and their overall "naturalness" (for lack of a better word). They have speed and detail without being aggressive or dry. I will say their top end sounds a little different from other high-end speakers I've spent time with (ML, Dunlavy, Theil, B&W,...), and it took me a little while to get used to this. To my ears, the Khorus AT FIRST sounded ever so slightly "damped" (again for lack of a better word) in the top end. They never sounded rolled-off or slow up top. In fact, the Khorus are more detailed across the spectrum than any speaker I've owned or auditioned. Instead, it seemed as if the Khorus was muting the very last ring of decaying cymbals (even though the cymbals sounded just right otherwise). This could be partly or wholey gear-related; I haven't tried changing cables or other gear yet from my ML setup. Even so, after a few weeks of intensive listening, I didn't notice this any more. In fact, now the Khorus' top end sounds very natural to me, and I've come to savor the silence they cast between notes. This seems to be an experience shared by some of the others who have owned or audutioned the Khorus. For instance, there were two reviews of the Khorus by people at StereoTimes.com, and I believe both reviewers noted what they called a slight lack of top end "air" (not exactly what I'd call it, but it gets at the same quality). I understand both reviewers ended up buying the Khoruses they reviewed to serve as their reference speakers. If there were anything "seriously" wrong with the Khorus, I think these skilled reviewers would have uncovered it (they certainly wouldn't have bought these speakers). Soundstage.com also reviewed the Khorus very favorably and found no short-comings. In addition, Harmonic Technologies used the Khorus to demonstrate their top-line cables (Magic?) at CES this year. HT cables are revealing, and HT surely would not have chosen to use the Khorus to promote HT products if these speakers had any short-comings. I also understand Jeff Rowland -- who makes some exquisite amps -- uses the Khorus as his reference speaker (I haven't confirmed this). All of these folks have high-trained ears, they have all undoubtedly auditioned many different high-end speakers, and they all surely have had the opporunity to buy other speakers in the Khorus' price range (and beyond). I doubt these people have all overlooked "something seriously wrong" with the Khorus. In any case, I think the Talon Khorus are wonderful, and in my humble opinion if you can buy a pair for $6k that would be a steal (no, mine aren't for sale). They're not perfect, but they are as close as I have gotten in my home. These days, I actually can't wait to get home from work so I can power them up. No speaker has had this effect on me before. And isn't this what it's all about? Of course, this is only my limited experience. I know everyone has a different set of ears and a different set of sound qualities they seek in audio gear. I too would like to hear from the handful of "former" Khorus owners to hear why they decided to sell. And maybe some of the other "still" Khorus owners can tell us what the like and don't like about these "supposedly fine speakers." Don
Metaphysics -- randomness is clumpy, and this could indeed explain it. Avguygeorge -- I never claimed the Talons are better than any particular speaker. In my post above (apologies for the pedantry), you'll see that I only said I've found the Khorus do some things "right" and some things better than my last speaker (ML reQuest). I can't answer your question about whether the Khorus is "better" than the other speakers you listed. I've heard some of them but not all. As you know, each speaker has its own personality: What's "best" for one person won't necessarily be "best" for someone else. I personally crave speed, detail, and a holographic soundstage; the Khorus satisfy this craving better than any other speaker I've owned (including Martin Logan and Dunlavy) or auditioned. Some people don't like revealing speakers, and prefer a more forgiving or warm personality. For them, the Vandersteen 5 might be a "best" choice. Others may crave a slam speaker, and there are several excellent speakers that have more slam than the Khorus, and so on. For this reason, I don't think there is an overall "best" speaker out there. Music is just too personal. In any case, the Khorus is best for my present tastes, and this is what I was trying to convey in my response to Suchtan's question. Suchtan -- Thank you for the nice complement. I've heard Thailand is beautiful, and I would like to visit there someday. I hope some of the wild places and remarkable bird species are still left when I get a chance to travel around to that side of the planet. It's a shame you don't have the opportunity to audition the Khorus. As Avguygeorge cautioned, you shouldn't let manufacturer hyperbole influence your decision (all manufacturers hype their gear to some extent and cast it in the most favorable light). Do the Khorus represent a quantum leap in technology? I don't know. I think Talon is doing something right because the Khorus manage to do so many things so well. Are they faster than electrostatics? Can't answer this either. The Khorus do sound very fast. The Khorus' bass is decidedly faster and more detailed than the reQuest and other speakers I've heard. In the upper mid-range and top end, I'd say the Khorus and electostatics are comparably fast, though the Khorus is definitely more detailed there and seems to stop quicker (don't know how). In the lower half of the mid-midrange, I'd say the Khorus sounds a tad slower than the panels, but the Khorus are still very fast and IMHO are more detailed than the electrostats in this part of the spectrum too. In any case, if you want to know whether the Khorus might suit your tastes, I would suggest seeing if you can find somewhere to audition some of the more popular fast and detailed speakers like ML (or other electrostatics), Dunlavy, Thiel, or Joseph Audio. (I would caution that the Khorus are a bit warmer, more polite, and less analytical than some of these designs.) If you like this kind of sound reproduction, I think the Khorus would be a great buy at $6000-8000. However, I'm just one data point. As noted, each person has different ears and tastes, so you should read as many different objective reviews of the Khorus -- from people who have actually owned or spent time with them -- to help give you an overall sense of how they perform and what you can expect. It sounds like you are already doing this, and inquiring on Audiogon should give you some additional perspectives and a larger sample of informed data points (e.g., from Macm and Slagletj) to help you make a decision. Good luck on your quest. Don
Rich, that's a sensible approach and it seems to be working very well for JRDG. Thanks for clarifying. Suchart, I'm surprised there are so many exceptional speakers available over there. The shipping cost and mark-up must be staggering! If/when I get the chance to visit Thailand, I'm going to hold you to your generous offer. And if you ever get a chance to visit Wyoming, USA, I'll extend the same to you. Don
Macm, I concur with your assessment (I also have HD600's and have noticed some similarity). It was quite a change for me to go from the in-your-face ML sound to the more laid-back Khorus sound. However, I do find the music to be more relaxing and enjoyable now, and I can listen to (and appreciate) recordings that sounded too aggressive on the MLs. I wasn't suggesting the Khorus is a "warm" speaker by any stretch, just that it sounds a little warmer to me than some of the detailed but dry-sounding speakers. It was a relative comparison. In particular, in my system the midbass through midrange of the Khorus is harmonically richer than the MLs, without sounding unnaturally lush or gooey. (Ditto for the HD-600s.) The music seems more complete to me now, though it's still not "warm" in an absolute sense. As for speed, my ability to resolve subtle differences in transients is based on a pretty course filter: very slow, slow, moderate, fast, very fast. Most sharp transients (rim shots, woodblocks, initial pick of a guitar string, etc.) sound "very fast" to me on both the Khorus and ML. The only speed differences I hear are mainly in the bass (Khorus "very fast" v. ML "moderate") and lower mids (ML a notch faster or at least more vivid). Overall the Khorus sounds fast across the spectrum, while the MLs slow down near the bottom. If you don't mind my asking, what cables have you tried and which are you currently using with your Khorus? Don
Macm and Kevin - I'm currently using Cardas Golden Cross speaker cables. I also have a pair of Talon speaker cables (can't remember what they call this cable, the Helix or something -- they aren't labeleled; each cable consists of ten separately-insulated copper strand wires braided inside a black woven sheath). Not bad for a newcomer, though the GC seemed to me to be a bit richer and had better bass performance. Concerning Macm's experience with the HT Truth Link, I had a very similar experience with MIT 330+ II's -- they make the Khorus sound a little rolled-off and a little soft and less clear in the mids (like more break-in is needed). Not surprising since the Truth-Link and 330's have some similar sound qualities. The 330's did provide respectable detail, imaging and soundstage (though I suspect this would probably be the case with any decent cable used with the Khorus). The only other cables I've tried with these Khorus are Analysis Plus ICs -- a bit clearer and more extended up top, but not quite as rich or warm in the mids (relative to 330's). Still more enjoyable than the MITs. I have been wanting to try the HT Pro-Silway II ICs with the GC SCs to see if I can get more sparkle up top without sacraficing any richness in the mids. The Harmonic Technology Magic series must also work well with the Khorus since HT used this set-up at CES. (Did anyone get to hear this arrangement?) I've also heard Synergistic Research Designer Ref cables work very well with the Khorus, though they're a bit pricey. Mikeg - Thanks for the Aloia and Audio Tekne tip. I'll see if I can find somewhere to audition these products. I've been wanting to check out the Aloia stuff anyway. To all - please keep me posted on what cable configs and other gear you find to work best in your systems. Don