Stuff You Tried To Love


I know we talk a lot about confirmation bias- we buy something and then convince ourselves we like it. Or something like that. But did you ever buy something you wanted to love and just couldn’t make it work? For me, Esoteric X-05 SACD/CD player. Bought from a local who was upgrading to the X-03. Big, beautiful piece of gear, but I couldn’t get used to the sound after 6 months of trying. Sold it to another local- I insisted he listen before he bought and I believe he sold it soon after as well. Totem Forest and Hawk. I loved the whole concept. Slim, easy to live with. Couldn’t get them to work in my room. The Model Ones were much better. I had a couple of other pieces, but this is long enough. BTW, these were bought used without audition.

chayro

Showing 15 responses by mahgister

I am often shocked at what clicks with different listeners.

 

 

Our consciousness level and our perceptions is related to the ways are oriented our acts of thinking, feeling and willing...

Music is a symbolic forms embodied in sounds grounded in the body existing on specific consciousness levels which cannot be perceived and understood as interesting and meaningful by all people in all cultures all at the same time ...

The deep meaning of Yoruba speaking drums or Didjeridoo meaningful experience can escape the mind of someone vouching only for Mozart or Miles Davis ...Or rock-pop etc...

There is no linear hierarchisation of value from the worst to the bests ... There is only music more able to elevate conscious levels or not and this for a specific person at one point in time in his journey which will make no sense for other people....

But there is a cycle of working thinking-feeling-willing-perceptions which at some point in time ask our consciousness to enlarge itself for a deepest experience and ask us if we are ready to open ourself to something out of our habits...

Because of all i just said: music is meanings engrammed and produced by the gesturing body (mouth and members) then the more distant from the creative body music is the less significant it is...( i speak about artificial sounds here not natural sounds) .

Then we must be ready to hear and understand Eric Dolphy... And we may prefer didjeridoo to miles Davis or Chet Baker ...Or praise youruba drums over kind of blue... This means nothing for others people... This only reflect a part of our soul journey in music

 

 

 

 

This is a very useful distinction...

Those who can think and those who cannot...

Those who can walk good and those who cannot...😊

After insulting me which is not a big deal, you propose insulting claims about a genre including the musicians and his public , your disparaging meaningless remarks dont surprize me ...

I love jazz by the way among many others genres...

 

Jazz is a easy avenue for fairly untalented "artists" to hide. They may be fairly proficient with an instrument, but, lacking heavily when you need to go beyond that...The average juicehead, of course, thinks he is "bourgeois" only if he claims he likes jazz! Jazz miyazz schnazz, lol

 
 

 

 

This is why there is so much great musicians to love... No one is greater than all the others...

It is also a soul affair between the musician and us... Not a public affair ...

Then it makes no sense to impose some piece of someone saying you must like this if not you are not a jazz lover...

i idolize Sun Ra album with Walt Dickerson ( my favorite vibraphonist) as an album as among the  greatest as many others cited here and well known if not for me greater 😊..

Am i a jazz ignorant ? 😊

 

 

I proposed that any great jazz afficionado must admire Sun Ra...

😊

I like kind of blue this does not means that i do not in fact  listen more often to many others albums...

People dont understand that what is the "best of hits  "  and the most liked is good for sure but it cannot be the best for all and not also the favorite listening for many...

His life is amazing...His father was himself a writer and a sufi mystic out of city life...

he was merely fasting and praying all day long younger... But he sees spiritual life too easy this way... He goes in the world to change it by his action and fortify his own resolve and meditate not in the confort of a cave but in city life ...

He is a mystic of high level and his music is not well recorded because he only play in private and family and with selected invitation only for prayers... He improvised to play... he was considered at ten years old as the greatest master of tanbur...

his music is only to tune our consciousness toward ectasy by God presence ...

all recording were made by disciples using tape recorder ... he never played for show or in public...

no other musician i hear is so impressive on a string instruments as improvisation ...very complex rythmic ...

 

His music is not so much beautiful as captivating and moving as a lava flow carrying all heart... We cannot understand is music out of understanding a true prayer : attention focus on pure love...

By the way Yehudi Menuhin goes to see the musician praying with his tanbur, and he said that it was the greatest musical experience of his life.. I bought the first cd because of this recommendation ...

As you had heard his tanbur was unique because no one had one with these two chords tuned as vibrating drones...

His music is not classical persian music...He improvize it all ...

 

 

Interesting short Bio of Ostad Elahi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaw7eWzgWr0

This video explains that Elahi designed an instrument with two strings that are deliberately not quite in tune. I noticed this effect as soon as I began listening to the track. This is a very different approach than what I’m used to as a guitar player!

... And another, longer film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlK7aYjqY1o

People who cannot fathom the fact that we dont like the same styles or genres that they idolize have no idea what music is...

Music adress us where we are ...

Thinking that we are in a contest or a race about what is the best is complete delusion...

listen to this and do me a favor, i think that this man is one of the great musician on this century as Yehudi Menuhin thought also , is it not better than Bye bye Blackbird ? 😊

As you can see we are not from the same mold... ( i like Miles and Chet by the way ) but this dude walk on another planet ... 😁

 

Try the Bach Brandenburg concertos and his violin concertos...

I listened them thousand times...

Incredibly moving and dancing music...

 The art of the fugue is not a good idea generally to begin with Bach for most ...

@mahgister 

Bach “art of the fugue”, I plan to give a listen, but there seems to be a multitude of recordings on Qobuz. 
Do you have favorites?

Kind of blue puts me to sleep also… but in a good way… relaxing & wonderful. 

For me, anything Schiit.  My first phono stage and 2 DAC’s. Schiit 

Ordinary people dont dare to spoke their mind... because opinions differ...

Imagine now a reviewer who must use a diplomatic language...

I like a lot European and many others countries jazz...Most are focussed on American jazz for sure... 😊

I am fond of bebop hard bop and all bop variations too numerous to name but viewing the list of jazz styles i like a lot more than i could name... etc...😁😋😎

 

 

List

Genre Characteristics Era
Acid jazz[1][2] Combined elements of soul music, funk, disco, including looping beats and modal harmony 1980s–1990s
Afro-Cuban jazz It mixes Afro-Cuban clave-based rhythms with jazz harmonies and techniques of improvisation. 1940s ->
Avant-garde jazz A style of music and improvisation that combines avant-garde art music and composition with jazz. It originated in the 1950s and developed through the 1960s. 1950s ->
Bebop Bebop or bop is a style of jazz characterized by a fast tempo, instrumental virtuosity, and improvisation based on a combination of harmonic structure and occasional references to the melody. 1940s ->
Big band   1910s ->
British dance band British dance band is a genre of popular jazz and dance music that developed in British dance halls and hotel ballrooms during the 1920s and 1930s. 1920s ->
Cape jazz Cape jazz (more often written Cape Jazz) is a genre of jazz that is performed in the southernmost part of Africa, the name being a reference to Cape Town, South Africa. 1990s ->
Chamber jazz Chamber jazz is a genre of jazz involving small, acoustic-based ensembles where group interplay is important. 1960s ->
Continental jazz Early jazz dance bands of Europe in the swing medium, to the exclusion of Great Britain.  
Cool jazz Contrasts with the hard, fast sound of bebop. A more relaxed, subdued style, with more formal arrangements and elements of swing and classical. 1940s–1960s
Crossover jazz Artists mix different styles of music into jazz. 1970s ->
Dixieland Dixieland music or New Orleans jazz, sometimes referred to as hot jazz or early jazz, is a style of jazz music which developed in New Orleans at the start of the 20th century. Stylistically it is essentially a form of Ragtime, typically transposed for brass band, banjo and/or clarinet. 1900s ->
Electro Swing[3] Modern interpretation of Swing merged with EDM. Performances typically include both a live band and a DJ. 1990s ->
Ethio-jazz A specific form of jazz that evolved in Ethiopia in the likes of the music of Mulatu Astatke, also referred to as the King of Ethio-jazz. 1950s ->
Ethno jazz Ethno jazz, a form of ethno music, is sometimes equaled to world music or is regarded as its successor, particularly before the 1990s. An independent meaning of "ethno jazz" emerged around 1990. 1990s ->
European free jazz European free jazz is a part of the global free jazz scene with its own development and characteristics. 1960s ->
Flamenco jazz   1960s ->
Free funk A combination of avant-garde jazz with funk music 1970s ->
Free jazz Free improvisation is improvised music without any specific rules. By itself, free improvisation can be any genre, it isn’t necessarily jazz. Free jazz musicians make use of free improvisation to alter, extend, or break down jazz convention, often by discarding fixed chord changes, tempos, melodies, or phrases. Ornette Coleman was an early and noted advocate of this style. 1950s ->
Gypsy jazz A style of jazz music often said to have been started by guitarist Jean "Django" Reinhardt in the 1930s. The style was originally called "hot club" or "hot jazz" and served an acoustic European interpretation of swing. The term "gypsy jazz" didn’t appear until after the 1970s, when Sinti people adapted their folk music to emulate that of Django’s. 1930s/1970s->
Hard bop Incorporated influences from rhythm and blues, gospel music, and blues, especially in saxophone and piano playing. 1950s ->
Indo jazz Fusion of jazz with Indian music (see also Sitar in jazz and Jazz in India). 1950s ->
Jazz blues Although not a distinct style, this is typically used to refer to songs that include idiomatic "jazz" embellishments to the standard form, such as the use of extended harmony and chord substitutions. At a minimum, jazz blues usually include a ii–V progression in place of the simple V chord and a I–VI/vi–ii–V turnaround at the end of the form.
Jazz-funk Jazz-funk is a subgenre of jazz music characterized by a strong back beat (groove), electrified sounds, and an early prevalence of analog synthesizers. 1970s ->
Jazz fusion Combines elements of jazz and rock. Characterized by electronic instruments, riffs, and extended solos. 1970s ->
Jazz poetry   1920s ->
Jazz pop    
Jazz rap Jazz rap is a fusion subgenre of hip hop music and jazz, developed in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The lyrics are often based on political consciousness, Afrocentrism, and general positivism. 1980s ->
Jazz rock The term "jazz-rock" (or "jazz/rock") is often used as a synonym for the term "jazz fusion". 1960s ->
Jump blues   1930s ->
Kansas City jazz Kansas City jazz is a style of jazz that developed in Kansas City, Missouri and the surrounding Kansas City Metropolitan Area during the 1930s 1930s ->
Latin jazz Draws heavily on salsa and merengue influences. Heavy use of percussion, including congas, timbales, bongos, guiros, and others.
M-Base   1980s ->
Marabi   1920s–1930s
Mainstream jazz A genre of jazz music that was first used in reference to the playing styles around the 1950s 1950s ->
Modal jazz Pioneered by Miles Davis, others. Characterized by use of modes, such as dorian modes.  
Neo-bop jazz A comparatively accessible, "retro" genre that emerged in the 1980s as a stylistic reaction against free jazz and jazz fusion. Notably associated with Wynton Marsalis. 1980s ->
Neo-swing The name given to the renewed interest in swing music from the 1930s and 40s. Many neo-swing bands practiced contemporary fusions of swing, jazz, and jump blues with rock, punk rock, ska, and ska punk music or had roots in punk, ska, ska punk, and alternative rock music. 1990s ->
Jazz noir[4] A form of slow or erratic contemporary jazz. Jazz noir (also known as "doom jazz" or "dark jazz") is noted for its often somber, mysterious or even sinister tone. It takes inspiration from film noir soundtracks and dark ambient music.[4] 1990s ->
Nu jazz[5] Music that blends jazz elements with other musical styles, such as funk, soul, electronic dance music, and free improvisation. 1990s ->
Orchestral jazz Also known as "Symphonic Jazz" 1920s ->
Post-bop A genre of small-combo jazz that assimilates hard bop, modal jazz, avant-garde and free jazz without necessarily being immediately identifiable as any of those forms 1960s ->
Punk jazz The amalgamation of elements of the jazz tradition (usually free jazz and jazz fusion of the 1960s and 1970s) with the instrumentation or conceptual heritage of punk rock 1970s ->
Ragtime   1890s ->
Samba-jazz   1950s ->
Ska jazz Music derived by fusing the melodic content of jazz with the rhythmic and harmonic content of early Jamaican Music introduced by the "Fathers of Ska" in the late 1950s. It is sometimes considered a subgenre of Third-Wave Ska. 1960s ->
Skiffle   1950s ->
Smooth jazz In general a smooth jazz track is downtempo (the most widely played tracks are in the 90–105 BPM range), layering a lead, melody-playing instrument (saxophones – especially soprano and tenor – are the most popular, with guitars a close second) over a backdrop that typically consists of programmed rhythms and various synth pads and/or samples. 1960s ->
Soul jazz Draws heavy influences from hard bop, blues, gospel, and rhythm and blues. It is often characterized by organ trios. 1950s ->
Spiritual jazz   1960s ->
Straight-ahead jazz A form of Jazz created in the 1960s with roots from the previous two decades. It omits elements from rock music and free jazz that began to appear in this period, instead putting more emphasis on acoustic instruments and a more conventional sound. 1960s ->
Stride jazz A style of jazz piano which incorporates left hand techniques from ragtime music, except the left hand spans a greater distance on the keyboard. 1920s ->
Swing Big band arrangements, always swung. Pioneered by Duke Ellington, Count Basie, and Benny Goodman. 1930s–1950s
Third stream The fusion of the jazz stream and classical stream. 1950s ->
Trad jazz Short for "traditional jazz", refers to the Dixieland and ragtime jazz styles of the early 20th century  
West Coast jazz A less frenetic, calmer style than hard bop, heavily arranged, and more often compositionally based subgenre of cool jazz.

Great post!

We cannot love everything ...

We are defined by our love... Nevermind the rest of which we are indifferent...

I love so passionnately some musicians and composers all the others can be put way behind the scene for me... It does not means they are not great... They are for some others people...

 

«Love is more merciless than an executioner who kill at least according to a law»-- Groucho Marx🤓

 

No Chet Baker. No Ella. No Ellington. No Armstrong. No B. Holiday. No Basie. No Dolphy. Gee, I must really hate Jazz! Actually,I don’t hate any of the above. There are simply other Jazz artists to whom I’d rather listen.

Sometimes it is not the opinion the problem...

Sometimes it is the way the opinion is phrased as an ultimatum...

😊

For sure you are right!

Be it Miles Davis and any other great musicians or Bach or Ali Akbar Khan, we cannot impose our values and tastes... We can only communicate them politely...

Anyway all great musicians are in a world of their own and are uncomparable and all necessary for humankind ...

Even those i will not name whom i like less...😊

Never understood the concept of bashing someone else’s preference in music. Personally, I have nothing against classical music, but I wouldn’t listen to it even if I could use someone else’s ears to do so. It’s not good or bad, it’s just not what I like. I also never audition my system for others because I didn’t build it to please others. I built it to please me, and it does that admirably.

😊

Anyone who does not get Bach "art of the fugue" a) lack a soul and b) does not deserve to even call themselves a music lover. Harsh but true!

 

 

Anyone who does not get "Kind of Blue" a) lacks a soul and b) does not deserve to even call themselves a music lover. Harsh but true!

😁😊😋😎

 

 

(But our musical biases, even the informed one cannot be imposed on others back, especially after a false alternative proposed as truth...)

The only exception for sure is Bach partitions😉... Any of them MUST be loved and merit to be put over anything ( i really think so by the way😜 ) ... Period... I am half joking here...

 

Bach is my forever favorite composer...And i am not alone in my gang of enlightened souls...

I apologize i could not resist...

After all Bach art of the fugue is over a jazz session so good it was and it is... I apologize to Miles and the others who anyway will be Ok with my opinion because they are first rate musicians ...

Sorry.... 😊

i cannot name the company but 10 years ago, perhaps 12, i bought a low cost amplifier , it was so bad we discarded it with a friend after one minute... And it was not a damaged one . i sell it the next morning my friend do not want one too even for free ...and no break in will redeem it trust me... I bought it because of all unanimous reviewers ... Thats my point ...😁

I also bough and here i will name it because it is not american product , then no controversies, i bought a Hifiman He 400... Bad design and a sound less convincing than the Akg K701 which i dislike ...The Hifiman He 400 break on my head for no reason save bad design of the cups attachment to the headband ( yes i take care sorry about my headphones) ... Here too the reviewers were unanimous...

I lost faith about singular reviewers here ... I started statistical analysis of users and of all reviews before buying .... It was a good decision ...😊

After that i go for 6 months of analysis for an amplifier and i was very lucky because more informed after an extensive search ...

i own it till this day...

i bought also 12 years ago a pair of active speakers well reviewed everywhere... I hated it ...but one year ago i modified them extensively and now they are audiophile grade speakers ,incredible so for the price i dont need anything else...M-audio AV 40 ... But if you use them as they are out of the box you will never listen to them at their best and they are really extraordinary if we modify the porthole design , the waveguide of the tweeter , if we control the resonance and vibrations by tuned damping and isolation sandwich and if we use a tube preamplification and protect them agianst EMI .. They became so good i would be afraid to buy anything under 1000 bucks... Not bad for 100 bucks speakers i hated for 10 years before using them the right way ...

 

Never trust one or two or even three official recognized reviewers...

Imagine it is me the reviewer : The american company producing the low cost amp i hated will be in bankrupcy... It is a good thing i was not a reviewer... They certainly created better design after that...

Hifiman will also had suffer a lot from me ... All their models are not bad...

And M-Audio will have recived from me only a enough acceptable review with no praise as Guttenberg did , praising them... In a way i was lucky because it is after modi9fication and optimization that they shine but not before sorry Steve Guttenberg... But i must say they were only really used as computer speakers even if they called it audiophile computer speakers... Anyway it is not false AFTER modifications of design ...😁 Now i am in love with them after 10 years of hate ...

Then dont trust completely reviewers, trust your creativity...