Well, tonight I hit the 100 hr mark of break-in for my 2nd Mark 2 amp. The y-adapters that showed up were too short anyway, so i have to be patient and let the amp break in and wait for the right length XLR y-adapters to be shipped. Any monoblock users out there hazard a guess as to when it would be proper to move the 2nd amp into monoblock mode? I guess I'm being overly cautious cuz it's not like when a biamped amp moves in; that amp can integrate in as the bass amp or whatever and likely not show its differences..unlike the monoblocks where one is distinctly left channel, and one right channel. Am I being too picky? thanks
Ted |
My y-adapters from Synergistic Research arrived earlier than expected so I set up my 2nd amp (now with 200+ hrs of burn-in disc signal) next to my first, flipped the switches, rewired the speaker cables as per instructions, and voila, the monoblocks live! In a word, stunning!!
I have been knocked out by the sound of the stereo Musician III Mark 2, but I was not prepared for the increase in clarity, dynamics, resolution, soundstage depth and just an overall ease to the presentation. It's quite a combo when you use dynamics and ease in the same sentence. I told a buddy that the analogy is a pickup basketball game where one team is basically standing around in their dress shoes, suits and ties, yet still beating a group of youngsters 40-0. Total control, not a drop of sweat.
I did uncover an interesting anomaly. although I read on the Spectron site that the conventional wisdom was to use each amp's right channel as the red/positive side, I paid little attention, thinking it was a coin flip decision. Hwoever, there was a definite phase issue when set up the other way (left channel of each amp positive and normal phase). Why? Simon reminded me that it had to do with AC polarity, and that the majority of installations would have AC polarity set up correctly for right/pos, left/neg and not the other way around. And he was right (pun not intended).
The Spectron monoblocks are truly state of the art IMO. Combined with the rest of my system, I now have a Hubbell telescope that is beaming back warm rich colors of the universe, and I'm able now to tweak the rest of the system to discover subtle cosmic nuances heretofore unknown. It's very very cool...and musical as heck. |
TMB, Thanks for sharing your impressions of the mono-block setup. I highly value your opinion.
I have a more modest setup, Pioneer receiver, Gallo 3.1's and the Spectron MKII with V-cap and Bybee upgrades. I am awed with what I get from the Spectron amp in my system. The soundstaging and presence of music is amazing. |
Sorry for jumping in here, but A'Gon won't let me start a new post.
I've recently acquired a Spectron Premiere 7 to replace a Theta Dreadnaught II. I'm using a soon to be modified ModWright LS36.5 pre all tied together with Transparent Ultr/Super MM1/MM2 cables. It will be driving the inefficient Vandersteen 3A Signatures. Any experiences with this combo?
If I'm not happy with that, I was considering a pair of Thiel CS 7.2. I've heard they like a lot of power which the Spectron will deliver. Has any body used or heard this combo?
Thanks for any input. |
I use the 2 box LS 36.5 dual mono pre with my Spectrons and they are great togther! They are not the PRemeir 7's but I'd imagine the synergy is still there. But, as a Modwright beta tester and public advocate I need to ask: what exactly is a "modified Modwright LS 36.5"? His pre is built from the ground up...what is being modified in yours?
Ted |
Thanks for your response.
Regarding the ModWright single box, I mentioned to Dan that I thought the bass with my former ARC LS-17 was a bit more forceful/stronger than the LS 36.5, but that everything else was better w/the ModWright. He suggested a power supply mod for my unit that may bring it to about 85% of the 2 box unit (such as yours).
I should have my Spectron on Thursday and Dan will have my LS 36.5 back in about a week. I'll keep you posted. |
Lube3,
Ah yes, he actually did that to my 1 box but then I went to the 2 box during the upgrade so never heard it. I have a buddy ,David (rydenfan), who has that PS tweek, I think (kind of a dual mono ss power supply that fits in the one box). Dan is going to do that to my Modwright Denon 3910 during the tube rectification update he owes me.
I would think a more powerful PS would benefit the low end first and foremost. Let us know. |
I'll have the ModWright and Spectron hooked up, hopefully, by Tuesday 10/14. What speakers are you using?
Thanks for the input, and I'll keep you posted. |
This post has a review of the mono-blocks with Bybee filters, as well as information about Tweekgeek's rooms featuring the Spectron amps with Modwright preamps. Best, iSanchez |
I really dont like this amp. Except tha fact that it can drive any speaker on the market, the timbre it produces is the fakest timbre I have heard. |
10-09-08: Argyro
I really dont like this amp. Except tha fact that it can drive any speaker on the market, the timbre it produces is the fakest timbre I have heard IN MY SYSTEM.
Argyro (System | Threads | Answers) |
Plinius SA-REF (or SA-250mk4 x 2) x 2 operating in Monoblock will do the job just fine and you'll have much much better sonics than any Musician amp you care to choose. Another bonus is the fact that Logans + Plinius = Match Made In Heaven !
Good luck!
AG
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Also, Plinius amps are a great match with BAT gear..!
AG
|
I heard the Plinius amps (don't remember which model) at THE SHOW 2007 and I couldn't be in that room for more than 3 minutes. The sound was very uninvolving and dry. There was lack of speed and articulation as well.
|
Definitely a bad set-up and I wouldn't be surprised that it was cable related too. I've been listening to Plinius amps for over 10 years now and with regards to their reference products they are very hard to beat. They possess a very fine sonic balance and will effortlessly drive dificult loads.
They are also a GREAT match with ribbons and electrostats.
A friend of mine is currently driving his vintage Infinity IRS Beta's with an SA-REF for the ribbon panels and an SA-250mk4 for the woofer towers using the BAT VK-52SE and the VK-D5SE player..The synergy is heavenly.
Uninvolving, dry, lack of speed and articulation were never traits of Plinius amps..!
AG
|
10-09-08: Isanchez
I really dont like this amp. Except tha fact that it can drive any speaker on the market, the timbre it produces is the fakest timbre I have heard IN MY SYSTEM.
Actually in a different system that I knew its componenents quite well. |
Argyro,
I'm very demanding when it comes to pitch,timbre and weight. I simply can't tolerate if the instruments don't sound like real instruments. I grew up being exposed to live music on a regular basis. My wife used to be a cellist. Many of our friends are professional musicians. Some of them play at the NY Metropolitan Opera, some in quartets and some are independent. I tend to enjoy very much the rehearsals since they are sometimes in a room similar to my listening room, so this allows me for comparison with my system. I also have had my ears checked by an Audiologist for the last few years. Each result indicated that my hearing is excellent.
Based on my experience and my music interests, I can tell you that the Spectron mono-blocks, in the current state of my system, are extremely close to the real performance. I have not heard any system, regardless of price, that can produce the laser-sharp soundstage definition that I'm getting with these amps, while at the same time carrying the pitch, timbre and weight of real instruments.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Ok, iSanchez I don't mean to doubt your findings or these amplifiers I just said what I heard in the specific system.
Regards,
Michael |
Hello Argyro,
Nobody doubt your sincerety. The two questions I ask are:
a) did you hear standard, Signature or latest Mk2 - well broken-in or..... not and
b) much more important question, we all respect Spectron for its "honesty" and I wonder if that you heard was some deficiency of some of the components in the system of your friend simply masked by his previous amplifier.
Again without doubting you your observation I am afraid I
can only suspect that Spectron unmask some imperfections in the system.
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Audiograils,
I fully agree with you that Plinius is first class amplifier - one of the best there is. I owned a few. BAT is also very good amp - I have extensively auditioned VK600SE with a number of speakers.
To my regret, I disagree with you on Musician because I own Musician right now and as much as I like Plinius (and BAT) these amplifiers are in different classes. Pure and Simple
If you will A/B them, particularly on the long run then you will see what I am talking about.
All The Best
Rafael |
Hi Rafael!
It was the standard edition. I suppose it had more that 500 hours on it. The thing is that the sound was so unrealistically sweet and I really cant blame any of the other componenents in the specific system.
Maybe it hadnt fully broken in, maybe it was the systems fault (that I doubt very much). Anyway.
Regards,
Michael |
Argyro: Actually, I agree with you. Standard Edition's highs were bad. Even in Nov 2006 TAS review of many class D amplfiers their all amplifiers highs were critiszed.
However, in January 2008, Neil Gader of TAS wrote rave review of Musician 3 Signature Edition - check TAS archives
and now we have Mk2....different animal all together and much, much better then Signature. Read Don Shaulis review on Stereo Times
Thank you for clarification. Now, I can sleep knowing that I am not totally deaf
All The Best
Rafael
|
hehehe!
Of course you are not deaf Dob, we just listen differently and have different tastes!
Happy Listening,
Michael
ACA.gr |
Argyro:
I don't know if "we just listen differently and have different tastes"
I think we both listen to standard edition of Musician III and we both agree that its highs were bad.
With whom you disagree (and so do I) is with the reviewer of EnjoyTheMusic Mr. Wayne Donnelly who wrote that standard edition high's are the best he ever heard in solid state or tube amplifier - check his review on Spectron web site. May be he is right not us and TAS panel (Nov 2006)
I just must point out that these observations are moot because Musician went thru two subtantial changes - Signature and Mk2 which changed this amp completely, so who cares and if cares then it should shows to you that designers - all or some of them took TAS critic seriously and worked on the highs.
All The Best
Rafael |
Rafael,thanks for your input. My opinion was based on the Musician II which was VERY powerful but far away from musical. It just had no soul. At that time the Plinius' top of the line was the SA-250mk4 and was both powerful and musical. I've no experience with the current Spectron iterations but I prefer to stay away from Class D amps for the time being as I also tried a couple of others and wasn't impressed. I do understand that with Class D, one can make a very powerful amp with less cost etc..but I still think this technology needs sometime to approach the best of the 'linear' SS and tube amps of today in how they
dig into the soul of the music.
But, as always, the milage may vary. I know taste also plays a role in this.
Best
AG
|
Argyro said:
"I really dont like this amp. Except tha fact that it can drive any speaker on the market, the timbre it produces is the fakest timbre I have heard IN MY SYSTEM.
Actually in a different system that I knew its componenents quite well."
I heard the Spectron in monoblock configuration today at RMAF. The timbre was natural and very dynamic. Maybe Argyro wasn't as familiar with the system as he thought. We listened for about 15-minutes today, which is not enough for a conclusive review; however, it clearly showed this amp to be a very neautral contender as one of the amps around.
Dave |
This is a description in Stereophile of the system featuring Spectron, Modwright, Analysis Audio, Bybee, Stereovox and the new Elrod Remote Sense cables designed for Spectron amps. Best, iSanchez |
Hello David,
"I heard the Spectron in monoblock configuration today at RMAF...."
In what room??? It is extremely important as if you auditioned in room 9007 with Audio Analyses speakers then its OK (except low level Modwright preamp - 9.0).
If you listen in room 1004 (10th floor)with SP Tech speakers then even with Modwright 36.5 preamp - my understanding is that the dealer could not set up system properly and presentation was just poor or worse....sorry. Its the lesson to Spectron NOT TO TRUST UNQUALIFIED dealers. Mike Garner from TweekGeek is very, very nice guy but until he got Spectron account the best he had was NuForce and even not v2.
At any rate who cares!
iSanchez - many thanks for the link. So its not $22k speakers or $14k amp but.....Bybees made the sound. What a journal, what an observation. Thanks
All The Best
Rafael |
You're welcome Rafael. This is a list that Mike Garner posted in another website for everybody's reference. I added what was missing from this list ().
Room 9007
- Spectron monoblock amplifiers featuring Remote Sense loudspeaker cables from Elrod.
- Modwright 9.0 preamplifier.
- Analysis Audio Omega planar loudspeakers.
- Modified Slim Devices music server.
- Bybee Wire AC conditioner.
- BybeeWire cables.
Stereovox Reference Interconnects.
Elrod Remote Sense Speaker Cables.
Room 1004
- Spectron monoblock amplifiers with Bybee mods.
- Modwright 36.5 preamplifier.
- SP Technology Revelation loudspeakers.
- Modified Slim Devices music server.
- Synergistic Research PowerCell AC conditioner.
- Synergistic Research ARC Analog Room Correction system (live demos).
- Synergistic Research TESLA interconnect, speaker and AC Cables.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Yes, room 1004 was not great, but I credit that to the setup of the SPs. It was very easy to hear that the Spectrons were doing a great job and certainly not grossly colored as suggested by Argyro.
Dave |
I also preferred Spectrons in room 907 over 1004. I perceived a greater ease to the presentation. Although my favorite by far is still last year's set up at Steve Chang place using SP speakers, H-Cat and his old CDp IN HIS ADMITTEDLY EXCELLENT ACOUSTIC ENVIRONMENT. This year's constant was Modright as linestage. . . and i SUSPECT I may not be fond of Modright pres, as MOST listenings of this brand OF PRES SUGGESTS that Modright timbre may be shifted just slightly more to the treble than i ENJOY. I am looking forward to listening to the excellent Spectrons again under more favorable conditions. G. |
Hello Guido
Both rooms have different Modwright preamps.
9007 had lower level 9.0 and room 1004 had higher level 36.5 Plus Spectrons in room 9007 were pure stock whereas in room 1004 they had expensive Bybee upgrade ($4k retail?). Still sound in 9007 was two heads better then that in 1004. Its Spectron fault - they should not trust inexperienced (but very nice ) dealer and come themselves for set up! Simon promised....
You did not answer the most interesting question for me - knowing whatever you know about Spectron - do you still prefer Jeff Rowland 312?
Thank you
Rafael |
The Rowland was much preferrable in the Soundings suite; HOWEVER, had Soundings set up the suite with the Spectron and if the Spectron had been fed with an equivalent CDP and a few other things, then the game would have been on, I'm sure. Despite the problems with 1004, it was clear that the Spectron is an excellent amp. With two giants like the Rowland 312 and the mono Spectrons, you really need the head-to-head in the same system for an extended time.
Dave |
Hi Rafael, yes the amazing thing is that the much more modest setup with the Spectron was -- at least to my idiosyncratic ears -- sonically preferable to the much more ambitious one. Admittedly small rooms are difficult to set up, and the very best components do not always get their full worth at shows.
In answer to your question about my preference between Spectron Mus 3 monos versus JRDG 312. . . the answer is. . . I do not know the answer. Neither I will know this answer, until I can compare the two on the same system. For what it is worth, I visited the Bel Canto suite in 589, where the new Bel Canto Ref 500 monos were powering some TAD speakers and was extremely impressed. . . so now I have at least 3 brands happily jumbled at the top of my own class D emotional heap. G. |
Hello David,
"I heard the Spectron in monoblock configuration today at RMAF...."
In what room??? It is extremely important as if you auditioned in room 9007 with Audio Analyses speakers then its OK (except low level Modwright preamp - 9.0).
If you listen in room 1004 (10th floor)with SP Tech speakers then even with Modwright 36.5 preamp - my understanding is that the dealer could not set up system properly and presentation was just poor or worse....sorry. Its the lesson to Spectron NOT TO TRUST UNQUALIFIED dealers. Mike Garner from TweekGeek is very, very nice guy but until he got Spectron account the best he had was NuForce and even not v2.
At any rate who cares!
iSanchez - many thanks for the link. So its not $22k speakers or $14k amp but.....Bybees made the sound. What a journal, what an observation. Thanks
All The Best
Rafael Rafael, ?? First off, were you there? Second, are you aware that this "inexperienced dealer" also produced what your counterparts are calling good Spectron sound in 9007?? TweekGeek had both rooms!!! I helped run the 1004 room for Mike (TweekGeek) and yes, we had a heck of a time, until late Saturday, getting the large Revelations to be tame enough in that little room to give folks a glimpse into what makes these speakers/pre and amp combo so special. But many, like the Stereophile blog points out, were impressed enough to want to hear them in the right environment? If you were there (especially late Sat and all day Sunday) and hated it, fine, you are welcome to your opinion. But please don't purport to know that 1004 was "poor or worse" or that Mike is unqualified, when you admit that 9007 sounded good or are not aware that Mike has received good reviews about both his rooms, both using Spectron amps. 1004 blog |
A collection of additional quotes on Room 1004 (TweekGeek's Spectron monoblock/SP Tech/Modwright/Synergistic Research RMAF 2008 room): I heard the Minis, thanks for the demo They are a great value and there is little to fault in a speaker at that price, which is an achievement for sure. Also, if you need a small speaker to fill a big space, these will fit the bill as they are capable of playing loud and clean without distorting. They were using Spectron amps, and a big huge amp seems like an appropriate pairing for them.
I was also extremely impressed by SP Technology, the speed, immediacy, and live quality of the sound was very striking. The SP Tech fans are really on to something. I felt like I had just left a concert after visiting that room. 1100 Watts of Spectron amplification had something to do with that too, I'm sure.
The SP Tech room was quite enjoyable ...the bass the Revelations put out is something else, that's a terrific speaker....nothing downright I'd find fault with, maybe some more treatment...but I have a new respect for how tough the shows and room situations can be for these guys...
SP Tech - only got to listen about 10 minutes and they were still playing with setup so it was hard to say. Based on what I heard, they have a lot of potential with the Spectron amps. It was just a lot for that room. I'd absolutely love to hear them with a little more room to breathe. I'm sure they're quite impressive.
I enjoyed the SP Tech Mini's and the Joseph Audio Pearls.
Tweekgeek/SP Tech/Spectron: I had met these guys the night before. By the time I got there, the Mini's were gone and the Revelation was just put in. BIG SOUND! Unfortunately, it was going through set up pains and I left before things were sorted out. I met the SP Tech crew in the elevator later and I was told that new speaker cables were brought in and the whole set up was much improved. Bob was in the room next to me. I went back and they certainly lived up to all the praises from AC crowd. I heard just a little hint of brittleness on top that I would like to try my big tubed Response Audio Bella Extreme/Hurricanes on them. I say this because I have tried Response Audio modded AV1s on my amps and they really sounded clean without any hint of metallic tinge. It may also have had something to do with the Exemplar (SA)CD player that they used.
SP Tech.... they deserve their growing reputation. I just heard the minis and they sounds a lot bigger than they are, and they're a good value as well.
|
Dear Ted,
Thank you very, very much for all your help in set up of two Tweek Geek rooms. I truly appreciate your efforts.
If I offended you somehow I deeply apologize.
May be I also was too harsh on Mike Garner - he is very nice fellow but I stand behind my statement that he is not YET experienced enough dealer for the set-up of very hi-end system.
I am sure next year he will prove me wrong !!! I wish him only well, he is very talented fellow and will go far.
One think I cannot apologize for is for my ears. To my regret I hear what I hear. I am truly terribly sorry that my comments was taken by you rather personally.
Moreover, testimonies of other people who's ears or qualifications I don't know are probably not the best argument as far as I am concern. Moreover, I been there and I heard what I heard...sorry
Again, thank you a lot for your help in the set up. Its difficult work and we all, enjoyed your work.
Thank you and
All The Best
Rafael |
Dear Ted,
I missed something. I was not Sunday there. From the accounts of varios people - my understanding is that Mr. Bob Smith, designer of SP Technology speakers arrived Saturday night and re-arranged set up. Moreover, he uninstall $6k Synergistic Research speaker cable and install that of David Elrod - twice cheaper and new cable made much of the difference.
So, you are probably right in regard to Sunday, I am sure you are right in regard of Sunday....but I wasn't Sunday there, sorry.
I will try to buy from Mike Garner this "magic" speaker cable if its not sold already
All The Best
Rafael |
Dob,
No harm no foul. I was confused by something in your first post about Mike's rooms that led me to think you were speaking from second hand experience, not first hand. You are clearly knowledgeable and have every right to your first hand (ear) opinion about the sound in the room, regardless of our differences. Thanks for the comments and retraction of your initial negativity against Mike. Did I meet you while you were there? Sorry you couldn't hear the Sunday setup. Thx
Ted |
Hi Guys,
I'm just wondering if anyone can guess the difference, particularly in how relaxed, palpable, liquid the sound is when comparing a stereo Mk2 with both Bybee and VCaps, to monoblocks without either of these upgrades. I can just barely afford two without upgrades, but could purchase one stereo Mk2 with both upgrades. My speakers are 88db 4 ohm, and manufacturer suggests amps up to 350W, so it is not a matter of needing more power than one stereo amp...
Thanks in advance! |
I think Don Shaulis addresses almost (no Bybees) that exact issue in his StereoTimes review. I could be mistaken but I think he surmised that stock monoblocks are a better sound than a heavily optioned stereo amp. A quote: The MK2 with V-Caps clearly bested the SE in smoothness, low and mid bass (upright bass, guitar, and piano) definition and midrange weight. Vocals were silkier and pianos had more sparkle and authenticity. Violins were less strident. I would call it a toss up with respect to dynamics and drums. The latter was a hard comparison to make since after listening to the monoblocks, the stereo amplifiers were found wanting. |
Thanks Ted,
Well, he got kind of close - compared a Mk 2 with VCaps by itself vs. in monoblocks. Then compared that new MK2 with VCaps to an old SE in stereo.
What I was hoping for (and I realize this is a very specific not very realistic hope), is a stock MK2 in monoblocks vs. a fully optioned Mk2 (VCaps and Bybees) in stereo. It's a question of those two different kinds of improvements against the relative cost (for me anyway). Regardless, I appreciate you pointing me to that quote!! |
You're right, sorry. Those monoblocks are not stock; they had Vcaps. My monos are stock, and most whom I've chatted with say going mono is a wayyyy bigger improvement than the stereo Vcap or Bybee upgrade....ymmv. For me, going from a stock Mk2 to stock mono Mk2's was huge, but I've yet to hear from anyone who commented on their stereo vcap and/or Bybee upgrade only. |
Hi Ted,
Thanks for the bottom line on those conversations. It looks like I'll have to go for the monos. I just loved the description of the Bybee upgrade - palpable, best tube attributes, etc. But hey, we all reach our limits. Bybee's can later be put elsewhere in the system. I've seen the concept of inverting distortion and having it cancel itself out before inside of dual mono amplifiers - it looks like Spectron accomplishes this at the speaker. If so, it makes sense that the mono benefits would go beyond one amp with any upgrades, as those distortions are there, but just less with various upgrades. Thanks again! |
Hello Chicago-phile,
Be patient. If you can reach monoblocks the grab it. Later on if you have a good dealer you will be able to upgrade to Bybees - its low labor cost so it should not be ezxtremely expenseve Regarding v-caps - ask Simon Thacher of Spectron (818.435.2090) to help you to find substitute for V-cap by off-shelf inexpesnive tweaks, he knows this amp in and out and you will almost get to monoblocks with upgrades.
All The Best
Rafael |
Chicago_phile did you get my email?? |
Chicago, I have the V-cap and Bybee upgrades and the sound coming out is mind blowingly wonderful. Regarding palpablity...you get in spades! I would strongly urge that you talk to Simon at Spectron and get his take of the two different options. That is just my IMHO.
By the way, I have a BAT REX and the BAT top of their line cd player coming. If you guys are interested I'll let you know how that works out. |
Bostonbean, what speakers are you using with these. I have read the Rex is suppose to be a really nice max-up what are you using currently. |
Hey guys,
Thanks very much for the thoughts. It looks like I'm going with the basic Mk 2 (no upgrades), but monoblocks. Will report back when everything has run in and settled a bit!
Rydenfan, thanks for the notice of yours, but I want to get these two together. |
FWIW, I will be listening to the stock SE MK II this week in my system. I will be using it to drive the woofers of a pair of Emerald Physics CS2's.
For the past few months, that task has been handled (very well I might add) by a pair of Atma-Sphere MA-1 amps.
Should be interesting to see how the two compare.
George |
