SME V vs 309 Sonic Differences

Hi Gsoravil
I actually have used both arms on my SME 10 tt.

First upgrade was a vdH Silver-Hybrid (SME upgrade item) with the 309.

Next going from 309 (with the silver cable) to a SME V arm.

In each case I would not have wanted to go back to the previous item - the changes are NOT dramatic yet worth while. The silver cable gave me more 'harmonic detail', subtle but absolutely worth while when first used with the 309.

Going to the V arm from the 309, a re-test of the stock copper hybrid became a complete NO NO.
The V is clearly more revealing and has a better bass performance, so much so, that I had to now use the silicon damping through (very little but still) with the same cart (Windfeld) and settings I had used with the 309.
The 309 is a bit more benign (less energy at both frequency ends), not a bad arm at all! (same family signature)-- BUT again, you do get what you pay for when going for the V.

Lastly, my system is pretty much revealing and it clearly showed the differences. Depending on system settings and likes, the V vs. 309 may no be as noticeable --- and some may even prefer an arm that is not THAT MUCH 'on-the-point' as is the V arm. But as I said, there was NO WAY back for me in this case, and I have not regretted a single moment having spend the extra bucks on the V.
Greetings,

Gsoravil,
y.a.:
>>> What percentage of the overall gain from the stock 309 to the V with cable upgrade would you say was the cable itself? 30%, 50%?<<<

The vdH silver-hybrid is NOT the stock V cable, it is a separate "SME upgrade item" at least that is my understanding.
Only the V arm internal wiring is done with pure silver wire compared to the 309 high purity copper arm wire.
On the 309 I'd say the silver-hybrid phono cable was 10-15% max. improvement with the V definitely more noticeable about 20-25% maybe a bit more, if one would attempt to express this in a figure which is somewhat ~ questionable.

>>> Also, do you get the sense the damping trough would help the 309? <<<

No, I don't think the damping trough is value added with the 309 due to it's more benign high and low frequency behaviour. It starts to make sense with the IV.vi arm which is really not a IV arm, but a stripped down V arm.

>>> Lastly, if you don't mind would you expand on what type of table and cartridge you're running so I have a better idea of equipment class? <<<

As I mentioned, I use(d) a Windfeld (top of Ortofon's range, but also their Jubilee, the runner up).
The table is a SME-10.
Greetings,

Gsoravil,
I had the Kontrapunkt-B on my 309, afraid to say that even the Jubilee puts it in its more ~ 'budget' place, never mind the Windfeld. I was 'crying' to my Jubilee back from a repair/check-up and was given the Kontrapunkt-B as a kind loan in the meantime. The Jubilee is a distinct upgrade, it does EVERYTHING a bit better, not the smallest argument as I experienced it.
Greetings,

Gsoravil
now just to throw the spanner into the gears.

I'm listening to an NOS ~ 150$ "Ortofon M20FL super" MI (moving iron) on my V arm and it give the Jubilee a run for the money!! Big time. In fact it sound better than a Kontrapunkt-B in my rig.

So, if you do NOT have to impress the neighbours and some such, save the cart money and get a top MM or MI cart. 4k$ saved for that Windfeld practically pays for your V arm, never mind trading the 309.
Greetings,

Jeff...
there is SMR IV and then there is SME IV.vi.
The latter ONLY available in US (for Sumiko), but as mentioned earlier, the IV.vi. is a stripped down V i.e. minus the damping trough.
The 'normal' IV is (silver not black) but uses copper arm wire and bearings one grade or so down from a V or IV.vi.

So there is a difference, and it WILL reflect in the price I should think.
Axel

Hi Jfrech,
y.s.:
>>> ...IV.vi uses a static vs dynamic balance. Theory here being one less thing to resonate. <<<

Well, if that dynamic arm VTF (that I indeed forgot to mention!) resonates, then the damping trough (which is an option to the IV.vi. for all I know), will resonate even more freely... :-(
The damping trough uses less viscous silicon fluid than is used inside the V's dynamic VTA housing, thicker in summer than honey in winter.
BTW, the same silicone 'juice' is also used to damp the swivelling DIN female phono-cable connector.

You are also correct with the manganese/copper cable vs. the vdH silver wiring in the V.
All said, it makes for a rather more expensive IV.vi. arm as compared to the normal IV arm, which is the point I was trying to make.
Greetings,
Axel