Nickt, I thought it was apparent in my review that I felt that the Tube Hybrid was a giant step up in over all musicality compared to the MK-4, so unequivocably it worth the extra $3500.00. The only concern would be is someone's system revealing enough to let this digital front end shine through, however I doubt that at this price range that a listner would not have a great system to begin with. |
Just wanted to share that I replaced the stock fuses in the Tube Hybrid DAC with Isoclean Power audio grade fuses. These fuses are quite a tweak, they significantly improved the overall sonic picture(transparency/dynamics/details/soundstaging)of the DAC.
I also finally put in my matched pair of NOS Telefunkens, instead of the NOS Amperex "Bugle Boy's". So far I find the Telefunkens seem to be more dynamic/transparent/detailed but are slightly less "sweet/warm" compared with the Amperexs. I like the way the DAC sounds with both sets of tubes, which are both quite better then the stock tubes from China, but have not decided which set of tubes I like more yet. |
Hi Branimir, it's good to hear from you, thanks for the kind words regarding my reviews on Accustic Arts digital gear.
If you got out of my review that the Tube Hybrid DAC is "warm" sounding then I failed at conveying it's overall sonic signature to you. As, I mentioned in the review I have never liked the Tube based DACS that I have auditioned because at best I find them "soft" sounding lacking resolution/details/dynamics and at worst I have found them to have a "euphonic/warmth" like older tube gear. The Tube Hydrid keeps all the virtues of the MK-4, but adds a liquidity with more natural timbres/image density which leads to more of a natural overall sonic signature.
So, I don't find the Tube Hybrid to be "warmer" sounding but more "natural" sounding to my ear's. I'll look forward to your experience after you audition it and were it ranks in your viewpoint of DACS. |
Hi Dev, thanks for the nice words regarding my review. To answer your questions:
1) The DAC does not even become warm to the touch.
2) There is a tube stand-by option, the SS state stays on while the tube goes to sleep, but I just leave it totally on because, which answers your next question, even if left on all the time the type of tubes and how they are used still means you would not have to retube for at least 3 to 4 years. I just ordered a pair of NOS Amperex 12AX7WA that should raise the performance of the DAC another 10 to 20% compared with the stock tubes from China.
3) This DAC has all the virtues of the MK-4, and I know this is a very subjective way of explaining, and then adds a more natural/organic sense to the overall texture of the music. It just sounds more "lifelike" and real. Not, just smooth or euphonic, it still is detailed with great dynamics, but makes it easer to just relax and get into the music. |
Dev, I'm not a "tube dude" at all, however I have now discussed with four tube mavens the differences between great NOS tubes and the best tubes coming from China and they all agree that regardless what the application is you should get a great improvement across the sonic board with changing the tubes. We shall see!
The major change would be it's just opening up more with greater dynamics so far. I have about 250 hours of playing time on it now, and just want to stay home and listen to music. |
I want to share that I have had in the AA DAC for about 30 hours a pair of NOS Amperex 1960's "Bugle Boy" tubes, replacing the stock tubes from China, and the results are trully amazing. More transparency, details, liquidity, and a bigger and more airy soundstage, just wonderful results and the tubes are still burning in!
I'll be recieving at the end of next week a matched pair of 60's NOS Telefunken's smooth plates and then will decide what sounds the best in my system.
So Dev, yes the performance of this DAC goes up a great degree with better tubes, and remember I was thrilled with the performance with the stock tubes. |
Dev, the DAC uses two tubes, I just recieved the matched pair of smooth plate NOS Telefunkens, however I'm having so much pleasure listening to the DAC with the Amperex tubes I'm going to wait awhile before I try the Telefukens out. Have you arranged yet and audition of this DAC? I'll be very interested in what your experience will be. |
Hi Dev, I'll really be surprized if you are not quite delighted with Tube Hybrid DAC in comparsion with the MK4. I agree that the MK4 is still a great piece, however the Tube Hybrid is just that more "musical/natural" sonicly without giving up dynamics or microdetails.
I am enjoying the sound of my system so much I have not replaced yet the Amperex tubes with the Telefunkens. I do not have an extensive tube background, however as I researched the sonics of different tubes and talked to very knowledgeable tube guys it be came very clear to me that I did not want overly "lush/romantic" sounding tubes like Mullards, but tubes that would offer dynamics, extension, details, with maybe a touch of sweetness or warmth, hence the Amperex and the Telefunkens are supposed to be even more dynamic but a little "cooler" then the Amperex.
As far as were to get great tubes and deal with great gentleman, I recommend: Brent Jessee Recording & Supply, Inc.(Brent) 847-496-4546 or Vintage Tube Services,(Andy) 616-454-3467.
I'm a great Nelson Pass fan so I'm glad your enjoying your 600.5's. It would be interesting if you audition XA160.5s if you would like there sonics better in your system. I loved my X350.5 but thought the XA-100's were a step up in my system and made the change.
I have heard both the Ref 3 and the top level Supratek in other systems, but not in a home audition. I really still believe it would be worth the hassle, the single-ended vs xlr, for you to audition the Flora, it's really an amazing sounding linestage and offers world class performance for alot less money then other highly regarded linestages. I did not purchase the Flora for economic reasons, but just based on its superlative sonics compared to so many other linestages I had listened to. |
Hi Dev, congratulations on your new AA Tube Hybrid DAC! It really is a terrific piece and I'm glad it lived up to what you were expecting. The MK4 is still a great DAC, however the Tube Hybrid goes to another sonic level.
I have come to a decision regarding which set of tubes I like more in the DAC. After another listening session with my dear friend Bob, who I refer to as the "Golden-eared" one we both came to the same conclusion, the Telefunkens offer power/dynamics/microdetails and finally unbelievable 3-D imaging in a very large soundstage which we both admired, but, he and I felt less "attached" in an emotional way to the music compared to the Ameperex Bugle Boys. The Telefunkens are not overly bright or etched sounding, however I think the word I would use to describe my experience of them in this DAC would be somewhat relentless and tonally cool, but boy on some types of music the balls to the wall dynamics and 3-D precise imaging was quite seductive, however the Bugle Boys for me sound more like real music with more natural timbres and an easy quality that allows you to relax into the music. Both tubes sound great in the DAC but different, and it really again comes down to personnal taste and system synergy. |
Dev, here's the information regarding the fuses:
Fuse holder 1A gets a 1A fuse. Fuse holder 102 gets a 1.6A. The arrows on the fuses face toward front faceplate. I have never tried HiFi fuses compared to the Isoclean's, so I don't know how they compare, but I do know that the Isoclean fuses are terrific in their effect sonicly. I will be putting them in my MG-20's, Flora, and XA-100's in the near future.
I have a hunch that the Telefunkens that you mention will have the same sonic signature as the one's I have and the other tube, Brimar, I have no idea regarding their sonics. In the context of my system I love how the Amperex Blue Boys help the DAC just produce beautiful music.
Would you share what your hearing in your own way what the Tube Hybrid offers that is different compared to the MK4? I find it interesting how people use different language to describe what they hear, so it would be great to hear your version regarding the DAC. Finally, when you get your NOS tubes and put them in, I think you will be amazed at how the performance improves, which is pretty terrific with the stock tubes already. |
Hi Dev, was just curious about how its going with your DAC regarding overall satisfaction and if you did put different tubes in and if so what were the sonic results?
A friend was very interested in comparing his new Meitner CDP compared to the AA Tube Hybrid DAC on redbook. Well, lets just say the AA was way better in my system on that day. The Meitner sounded both "dry" and did not throw any were close the soundstage/air around players like the AA. |
Just wanted to share that I just got through auditioning in the AA Tube Hybrid DAC the last of the great "three european sisters" tubes, the other two are the Telefunken smoothplates and the Amperex "Bugle Boys", the last "sister" being the Mullard longplate square getter 12AX7.
Well, the Mullards lived up to their sonic reputation, warm, lush, romantic, yet still offering clarity/transparency with a big open soundstage and air, but they are not as extented on the top and bottom compared with Amperex Bugle Boys and are to creamy for my sonic taste. Certain things like cymbals and brass instruments that should "sparkle" and have "aliveness" were just to soft in the context of my system. If someone is either enamored with the sound of type two DACS like the Zanden or SET setups they would love how the DAC sounds with the Mullards.
So, after sonicly dancing with these three famous NOS 12AX7's, I'm sticking with Amperex Bugle Boys that are just about sonicly in the middle of Telefunkens and Mullards and to my ear's make the Accustic Arts Tube Hybrid and my whole system sing closer to what real music sounds like to me. |
My last post stated that after trying Telefunkens and Mullards I came to the conclusion that the Amperex Bugle Boys offered the best of all sonic worlds when used in the Accustic Arts Tube Hybrid DAC.
Well, I just tried Amperex Bugle Boy 50's Long Plates, instead of my Amperex Bugle Boy 60's Short Plates and have got a new reference in tubes for the following reasons:
1)Greater transparency/clarity with more microdetails.
2)More air around players with a greater sense of 3D images in the soundstage.
3)More powerful dynamics and punch in the bottom end.
Yet, these Long Plates still keep the liquidity/easyness and warmth of timbres of the Short Plates with the above stated sonic improvements. I always find it amazing when you can get this rare combination of ease and resolution at the same time, which leads to a higher level of musical enjoyment. |
Mtkhl567, in the context of your world class reference system, it's quite a compliment you are giving to the sonics of the AA Tube Hybrid DAC.
I have recently talked to someone who had recently listened to all the top rated digital front ends, Dcs, Esoteric, Metronome, Zanden and he still felt that the Accustic Arts Tube Hybrid was the best of the bunch. And to think all the other DACS retail for at least $15000.00 to $20000.00 more then the Tube Hybrid!
I also believe, please no disrespect on my part, that the Meitner transport is not one of the better sounding trnsports to mate with the Tube Hybrid DAC. A dear friend has the Meitner reference DAC and uses a CEC TL-0 for redbook because it sounds significantly better then the Meitner transport with his Meitner DAC. So, I believe you would get even a higher level of performance with a different transport. If you heard the DAC with the stock tubes you would be amazed at the sonics with the best NOS tubes that I discuss on this thread. |
Mtkhl567, I use the AA transport MK11 in my system and think its a great match with the DAC. I haved tried two other very good transports and did not hear enough of a sound difference to make the change. Yes, Accustic Arts is coming out sometime this year with their new reference level transport to match the Tube Hybrid DAC, I'll be auditioning for sure when it does come out. |
Hi, Dev thanks for the information you left me regarding the Stealth Dream speaker wires, I hope to getting a pair to audition at the end of this week.
Now on to your questions:
1) I use the Stealth Sextet with BNC connections. I have never heard the XLR version in my system. Please share which cable produced which result when you ran the experiment.
2) I have not heard the most current CEC TL-ox with this DAC. Richard a fellow GON member who also owns the Tube Hybrid uses the CEC TL-ox and is enthralled with the results. He also has NOS Amperex Long Plates and the upgrarded fuses in his DAC.
3)Yes, the fuses make enough of a difference to make a difference to put them in. |
Dev, Richard's Gon moniker is Hamburg. He went from a Levinson transport not a Accustic Arts to his CEC-TLOx in his system. When we talked regarding the differences it was across the board, soundstaging, dynamics, extension, liquidity, etc., and brought the overall sonics of his system to a higher level.
I have gotten no information yet regarding when AA will release their new transport or what they will be doing regarding the mechanics of it compared to the MKII transport. |
Mtkhl567, thanks for your comments. When I contacted the new importer for Accustic Arts for the US, who seems to be a good guy and a fine gentleman, regarding the differences between the Dac II and the SE, they revolved around NOS Russian tubes vs the tubes sourced from China and as you stated higher tolerances regarding quality control.
Well, I'll stick with my long plate 1940's Amperex and the difference it would cost to change to the SE does not seem justified when the performance increase might be just a slight improvement/difference over the standard DAC. |
Mattheus, congrats on your new toys! If you look at what has been posted on this thread regarding tube rolling in the Tube Hybrid DAC, replacing the stock 12AX7's with NOS tubes the performance will even go to a higher level that you are enjoying as the pieces are burning in. So let us know what's happening regarding the new XLR cable from AA and other fun details. Enjoy. |
Mattheus, unless AA did something radically different in the new transport there is no reason to leave a cd in it when you are not playing it. I never do, I just leave the puck/clamp off the spindle and close the top.
Do you have any idea if the new transport has a different puck/clamp compared to the MK11 drive as far as size or weight? |
Last week I replaced my AA Drive MK11 with a MBL 1521a transport. I was expecting a difference, but frankly was very surprized, happly so, with the significant improvement across the sonic landscape.
1 A larger soundstage with more air between the players.
2)A much greater ease/liquidity without lose of dynamics or slam.
3)Extension on the bottom end with more power and speed. I believe its the best bass I have ever had in my system.
4)Microdetails are more apparent but in a very natural way, I believe I'm hearing more because this transport has a much lower noise floor then the AA Drive MK11.
I would say the musical/enjoyment level using the MBL transport with the AA Reference Tube Hybrid DAC went up another 25% or 30% in my system. I still believe that the AA Tube Hybrid DAC is one of the best sounding digital pieces on the market today and when you factor in its cost compared to what it competes with sonicly, kinda of a bargain. I have no idea if the new AA reference transport will perform better/different then the MBL transport, but either way it shows two things; 1) Transports really can make a difference 2) How much more potential performance can be gotten out of this terrific DAC. |
Hi Mtkl567, here's the answers to your questions:
1) I use a Stealth Sextet BNC between the transport and DAC.
2) I use a Stealth Indra, single ended, between DAC and preamp.
3) I use a Townsend isolation platform under my transport, and have experiemented with different footers under the DAC and transport and have not discovered any great improvement regardless what product I have used. |
Mtkhl567, to be quite frank there was three reasons I chose to audition and then purchase the MBL transport:
1) I heard the reference MBL in a good friend's system and was quite impressed with what it did with his DAC, which sounds very much like AA Tube Hybrid DAC, and became very interested to audition the smaller brother in my system.
2) I was able to set up an audition of the MBL and thought it was absolutely the best sounding transport I have ever heard in my system. In the past I have either owned or auditioned such highly regarded pieces as the ML 31.5, CEC TL-1, Oracle reference, Accustic Arts Drive MK11 and the MBL was much better sonicly then all of them.
3) I was offered a great price that would be significantly less money then what the new AA reference transport would cost me.
Based on my experience with Accustic Arts digital gear I bet the new reference transport will be a great step forward over the Drive MK11, however will it out perform the MBL, that I'm not so sure of.
A final addressing Shahedk's interest regarding the Kallista transport. This line is no longer imported into the US because of a very high failure rate. My friend who has in his system the MBL reference transport at one time had the Kallista reference and believes the MBL is better sounding then the Kallista and is built to a higher standard then the Kallista. |
Shahedk, I was very lucky that dear friend and fellow audiophile had an extra reference clamp and sold it to me for what he had bought it for. The retail price is $600.00, he had obtained it for $300.00, don't know were, and that's what he charged me. By the way, it really makes the transport perform on a higher level compared to the standard clamp.
I never opened up the transport, so I can't help you out regarding the layout or parts that MBL uses in it besides the description on their website. |
Cykeric, the short answer is no, it won't sound too forward and not natural enough.
Read my review of both pieces for the details why both pieces, Drive 1MK2/DAC 1MK4, will be an improvement sonicly over the prior generation. |
Just wanted to share that I recently listened to three very highly regarded digital front ends and the Accustic Arts Tube Hybrid really "hangs" sonically with these other reference level pieces. I'm not saying that the AA DAC was better, however I did not go back to the tube Hybrid with any sonic regrets at all. But here's the punch line the other digital pieces cost at least $8000.00 to $30000.00 more then the Accustic Arts DAC! So, I still believe that for what this DAC sells for and how it competes with hughly more expensive reference pieces that's it is still one of the great bargains in very high end digital front ends. |
I just recently bcame aware that Accustic Arts has come out with a special edition version of the Tube Hybrid DAC. My past experience with all Accustic Arts digital pieces has been when they come with a new MK generation or brand new gear that the sonic performance is an improvement over the last generation. This company has integrity and only comes out with new stuff when they know that have gotten a real improvement sonicly compared with the older generation. So, I'm thinking about making the move, anyone else, what do the rest of you Tube Hybrid DAC owners think? It's hard to believe that the SE version would be that much better considering the stellar performance of present DAC, but you never know. |
Chris, my experience has been the opposite of yours. I found DACS like Audio Note and Zanden to be "closed in" with lack of extension and sparkle/airness on the high frequencies. The AA Tube Hybrid DAC has great extension on top, not rolled off at all, with lots of detail and beautiful/natural timbres. I would assume the tubes I use, NOS Amperex longplate D-getters have a helping hand in this great top end in my system. |
On the website, Postive Feedback Online, reviewer Marshall Nack just posted his review of the Accustic Arts Drive 11 and the Tube Hybrid DAC 11 SE and stated, "At its price point, it is the best I've come Across". For the details of why he came to that conclusion read Mr. Nack's review, but for us that own the AA Tube DAC 11, the SE version costs $500.00 gives you better tubes and a few upgraded parts, but basicly sounds the same as the regular DAC 11, we know already that it's still one of the best sounding redbook DACS and competes with virtually anything out there regardless of price. I'm glad a good reviewer, in my opinion, here in the states finally is giving the Accustic Arts gear some well deserved credit. |
Cykeric, I'm a little confused, I did GON reviews on both the DAC 1-MK4 and the Drive 1-MK2 which compared them to the first generation AA pieces, not the Reference Tube Hybrid DAC. Take a look at them, if you have not already.
Regarding your question about what is the difference between the tube DAC 11 and the SE version, the SE version uses some higher tolerance parts and supplies you with what are called special "NOS quality tubes". Well, at least the SE unit I heard came with JJ 12AX7 tubes, which ain't special, not NOS and sound like crap. The sonic difference between my DAC 11 and the SE version was my DAC sounded better with the tubes I use, NOS 12AX7 Amerex Bugle Boy long plate G getters. If I was buying new right now I still would buy the tube DAC 11 which sells for around $1200.00 less then the tube DAC 11 SE and go out and buy some great NOS tubes, cost would be around three to four hundred dollars, save alot of money and still have a DAC that out performs the more expensive model. This DAC's sonic performance is greatly effected by what tubes you use. So for my money I want to pick what NOS tubes that give me what sonics I'm looking for. So, in my opinion the change in a few parts or their working tolerances did not make any significant sonic inprovement, but without casting aspersions towards either AA or the US importer the DAC SE I experienced did not come supplied with NOS tubes, I guess the JJ's are better then the EH stock tubes in the DAC 11 but they both are crappy sounding, and you are supposely spending some of the extra cost on NOS tubes provided by AA. Can't answer your question regarding the top cover, the units I have seen all have the craved out tube design. |
Cykeric, since I own in my collection over 6000 redbook CD's, that's the only format I care about. In my opinion your statement that CDP's have a sonic advantage regarding getting rid of jitter, hence sounding better has not been my experience. I have listened to three of the highest regarded players and found them to be good but not as good as the AA reference Tube Hybrid in my system. So, I would recommend you keep your AA transport and upgrade to the Tube reference, with the right NOS tubes, this would offer you a much higher level of musicality in your system. |
Eric, have fun with your new pieces! Yes, give them at least 60 to 100 hours to burn in. As far as your concern over transparency, it should clear up with break in. I found the Dac1 MK4 to offer great performance, so give it a chance to settle in and let us know what you think. |
Guys, I just found another gorgeous sounding 12AX7 tube for the AA Tube Hybrid DAC, 1953 longplate Siemens.
This tube offers a touch more air/extension on the top, a slightly faster bass, an overall sense of more dynamics/details, yet is still retains the warmth/musicality in the midrange like the Amperex Longplate G-getters. Both are wonderful in this DAC, yet just a touch different. |
Just wanted to share that another USA reviewer, Micheal Wright, this month did a review on the AA Tube DAC and gave it a superlative total "thumbs up" for its sonic performance.
Mike used to be a staff reviewer for the website, Stereo Times, he now is a reviewer for the Website, Ultraaudio. I have always enjoyed his reviews and believe he is an excellent writer with very good ears' regarding what a piece of gear really has to offer. For details regarding his take on the AA Tube DAC take a look his review. The only aspect I was concerned with he auditioned it with JJ/Telsa 12AX7 tubes, yet he still thought it's a killer DAC. However based on my experience the performance goes to a much higher level with the right NOS tubes compared with the stock tubes even in the SE version of the DAC. |
