Ready to try vinyl


I would like to buy a turntable just to see what all the fuss is about. Since I remember the pops and scratches all too well, I do not want to spend alot just to satisfy my curiosity. I want a turntable that is capable of giving me a "taste" of what the vinyl sound is all about without going overboard. I can always upgrade if I like what I hear. I would also like to avoid deciding against vinyl because the turntable was not capable of capturing at least the basics. What turntables should I be looking at and how much should I spend? I would prefer to buy used due to the experimental nature of this adventure. Current gear is Sunfire processor with phono input, a pair of Classe M 701's, and B&W 800N. I am relying on your responses since I don't know squat. Thanks for your help.
baffled

Showing 4 responses by rnm4

Hey Jean des Nantes,

You clearly didn't read what I wrote, or understand it to the extent you passed your eyes over it. And don't try to tell me my Kuhn, or my history of science, you dillatante.

Anyway, I am gratefully humbled. I had though *I* was pompous and long winded!
Hey John-whatever. You have gone well into the range of crankhood. Stop whipping out the overworked and under-defined term "scientific", and stop exploiting the piss-poor inference from "the experts used to think P but now we know that's wrong" to "the experts now think that Q so it must be wrong too." The experts can (famously) be wrong, but the fact that the experts agree on something is hardly a reason to think it's false!!! After all, it was the experts who in the end figured out the world was not flat, and it's only cranks on the margins who now disagree (loudly, and citing, e.g., when the experts agreed there was ether). Clever does not make a good argument, and zealotry does not make a "scientific" case. Making people laugh is not the same a being right (as if there were a right here).

No shock you have Psychic-organism on your side; the properties of DD and idler must be very different, but they do share unporpularilty among the experts in common. Cranks on the margins love company!
Apologies to the OP, by the way. My $.02? Big diference between plug and play and tweak/diy/hunt/no dealer support. If you like the latter sort of thing, there are lots of options, but it's a big commitment and involves at least as much obsession and fiddling as listening to music. If that's your bag, go for it. Otherwise, get a Rega P3, get it set up with care by someone who knows what they are doing, and then start tapping your toes, 'cause vinyl sounds great.

Johnxxxx,

I have no doubt your Lenco sounds great. I absolutely agree that blind A/B comparison, done with care and patience, is the most probative way, though hardly foolproof, to decide what one is likely to prefer as a purchase for long term listening.

How did I miss your point? Was it just that the experts may be wrong? Duh. Did I say anything to the contrary?

Your comparison of yourself as an idler wheel crank to Galileo as a heliocentrist crank and Darwin as an evolutionist crank are absurd and ridiculously pretentious. Yeah right, idler wheel vs. direct drive vs. belt drive is a matter of revolutionary science, and you are a revolutionary scientist.

Moreover:

"empirical science, rests on experiment and observation" is not a definition (any logician could tell you that). Looking out the window to see whether it's raining or not is based on experience and it ain't empirical science.

Your Bacon quotation is pretty, and back in the day, it was important in the effort to overthrough scholastic appeal to authority as the gold standard in all matters of inquiry, but its idea of neutral collection of observational evidence was shallow, and hasn't been taken seriouly, except as a target of criticism, by theorists of science for a very long time. Obervation itself is theory laden -- that's the term of art in science studies -- so no observation is a pure foundation for theory.

The Galileo case illustrated the point perfectly. He didn't prove the Earth revolved around the sun. he showed how how one interprets various 'pure observations" will depend upon one's presuppositions, and that various bits of evidence cited by geocentrists against heliocentrism depended for their evidential force on question-begging assumptions involving the stationary character of the Earth. When it comes to "proving" the Earth does move, you need not just observations, but theory as well, and the former can never itself prove the latter. This point can be made as a matter of logic, by the way, which I dare say I understand better than you. If you knew any logic or actual theory or history of science, you wouldn't be so dogmatic in the absolute value of your "observations". And you'd realize that your own conviction that the Earth revolves around the sun isn't based on observation, but on appeal authority -- which is as it must be in most things. Knowing which authorities to trust is an essential epistemological skill, not reducible to some rule, and certainly not a matter of pure observation.

Oh, and yeah, some equipment sounds better than others. Duh. Your jumping up and down and screaming that the sky is falling doesn't make it so, however.
Accurate speed measured over what interval(s)? This might make all the difference!