pre-amp and amp for 1K

By far the best sonic combo that I can think of that you can get for anywhere near the price range you are talking is the Odyssey Stratos amp and perhaps their Tempest pre-amp. Check out the reviews on audioreview.com. Out of about 90 consumers, last time I checked the Stratos was rated a 5 out of a possible 5. Not one flaw. Website is Odysseyaudio.com I believe. They should have some reviews there also. Each component sells for $999 each. But again, they are some of the best made for anything under $5000 per component. Buy one now and one later or perhaps Odyssey can give you a bit of a deal.

If you must, must stay under $1200 and need both right now, you might want to look for a Sherwood Newcastle pre and amp used on audiogon or Perhaps a Sony TA9000ES pre which sells new for I think $700. The Sony TA90000Es is supposed to be pretty good, but the Sherwood Newcastle stuff, though decent looking, is supposedly a definite step down sonically.

IMO

-John

With your 90db. sensitivity speakers,tubes should be the ticket! I'd consider a rogue 88 amp used($800.) and either a Audio Electronics Supply ae3 used pre($350.)or a rogue 66 used pre($750.). Rogue also makes a integrated amp that is called the "tempest", which might also suit you nicely. Good luck and keep us posted!

right now I'm thinking of finding a used Rogue pre-amp and matching it with a good amp a few months down the road. I called Rogue and they said could add a HT-passthrough for $100. Also said alot of people had matched thier pre-amps with Odyssey amps with good results.

Made an offer on a used Rogue 99 pre but guess it wasn't good enough because I never heard back.

I guess you can see the $1K budget isn't firm, but I'm looking for value here. I'm sure the Tempest is a great integrated but I think seperates may allow an easier upgrade path in the future.

The one thing in the back of mind though is I'm not sure of the difference in the various HT-passthrough/processer loop designs. I bet the Rogue would have better 2-channel sound but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off with a 5-channel pre like new Audio Refinement Outlaw Audio 950.

Far as I know, HT processor loops come in one of two varieties. One is just a simple wire when engaged, which is to say that it bypasses the guts of the preamp entirely and just flows straight on to the main amp. The second loops the feed through the preamp's innerds and then sends it out through the main outs. With this variety, you have to worry about the volume control on the preamp as well as the processor. The way to do this is to set the volume on the preamp to an easy mark (say 12 o-clock) and then use the processor to equalize all of the channels at that setting. Then, whenever you use the processor, you just have to remember to set the preamp's volume to your chosen benchmark.

Each method has its own benefits. The first is clearly easier. Just engage and go. VTL's loop is of the second variety. Personally, I'm not one to argue that the tubes in my preamp render a completely "colorless" sound, but I happen to like what they do "add," for lack of a better word. Thus, I don't mind that they are engaged (as opposed to completely bypassed) when the HT is going. That said, remembering to set the volume on the preamp is, without argument, just one more thing to remember. Each to his own, no? Anyone know how Rogue runs their HT loop?