If most in this hobby have been weaned off 18 guage lamp cord for speaker wires(maybe not)and use something more substantial,while also using some aftermarket interconnects,I would think that an aftermarket power cord would be the next logical step.
Providing ,of course, that you've heard any differences using upgraded wires elsewhere.
Depending on how your system is voiced,too much of any one type of sonic colourations can be a bad thing.
I wouldn't doubt for a moment that thinner guage power cord could sound better than a thicker one.
The real truth is that you could distinguish a difference and prefer one over the other.
It doesn't matter what the power cord looks like or costs, it's how much you like the sound of it that matters. |
Let's look at the term "snake oil".
Its an old term brought back to life, now related to audio and not medicine.
We all know stories about the travelling medicine man.
Then the gullible folks who were duped out of their money, by miraculous but false claims.
Where are the scietists when you need them?
But the difference between then an now is that the folks who bought the stuff from the medicine man, never had a chance to try the oil before they bought it.
When it comes to power cords, you have the choice.
If you don't hear any difference in your system and with your ears,you won't buy the product.For you that's proof of snake oil.
If someone does hear an improvement and buys the product,he wasn't conned, and to him the product is not snake oil.
He hears it, you don't.
That's the simple fact, to have to prove it to the denier, is moot.
The denier is not required to buy the expensive power cords.
He can decide to spend his money elsewhere in this hobby as he sees fit.
Maybe a better power amp.
Maybe several others when that power amp doesn't seem to do it for him.
The power cord in all these transactions is most always the stock cord that came with the amp.
The amps come and go, each with the promise of sonic nirvana, but afterawhile it's the amps that are precieved as snake oil, and then the whole hobby is rife with snake oil con artists and their shills.
The audiophile's pursuit of the absolute sound has ended in another burn out.
Another one bites the dust, goes off the merry go round and makes do with whatever he can cobble from the pawn shops of broken audio dreams, and tells us this is his sonic bliss.
Who are we to tell him otherwise?
We bought snake oil afterall. |
I wonder if the people who can't hear improvements, be it power cords, fuses, wires etc,really take the effort to really listen and evaluate the sound of their systems?
I'll bet they are passive listeners, sometimes called music lovers, but aren't we all in this hobby because of the music?
Ah yes, but some folks are content to just plug it in to the wall with whatever came in the box and listen to music as sonic wallpaper while they pay attention to other things.
If that is the type of music lover that you are, then yes of course none of this aftermarket stuff is relevant to you.
I can see why you would rather spend your hard earned money on more music, which of course you will only be listening to in the background.
Some of us, for whatever reasons, tend to push the envelope.
Some folks like to modify their cars and tweak up performance , while others are content to just get to work and get back home safe and sound.
I think the group who are after upgraded performance get where the other side is coming from, they've been there.
The other side ,however, hasn't been anywhere different than where they've been since day one.
I'm certain that this is the group that will never be swayed or converted.
It's just not in their genes. |
If power cords can't make a difference, then nothing else in this hobby should either.
If you think stranded copper wire will sound just the same as solid core, then a tube amp should sound the same as a solid state amp.
If you think 18 guage zip wire sounds as good as Crystal cable,then a 300B tube sounds the same as an el84.
But of course nothing sounds the same as anything except it's self.Especially so if the gear are constructed from different materials and in different ways.An amp is an amp,if they meet the same specs they should sound identical.But do they all sound the same?
Remember when people avoided cars made on Fidays and Mondays?
I would like to know what amp has the ideal sound, so that we can clone it?
Sorry, I've never heard a modelling amp that when compared directly to the "source" sounds exactly the same.
Somehow old black face Fender amps sound different than the newer ones do, even if the names are the same.
A synthed Hammond B3 sound is nice, but nothing can match the real vintage B3 with a Leslie 145.
They sound about the same, but it's more like listening to a recording of a B3/Hammond,while the real thing sounds like the real thing.
And that comes from working onstage in a group with a Hammond X2 played by one fellow and a real B3,Leslie, played by another.The real thing has more presence, and the sound pressure(not volume) just envelopes you more than the synth organ.
Something tells me a small 5 inch woofer will sound a bit different than a Klanghorn, even if moddeled after the Klanghorn.
I remember reading about a fellow doing a repair to Robbie Robertson's guitar years ago, and noticed that one of his pickups had more windings around the magnet than he was used to seeing.
Robbie always had a "sound" but no one knew it was all just a chance happening.The fellow at the Fender factory was nearing the end of the roll winding the pickup and decided to just let the spool run out.
The extra bit of wire made the difference in sound.
That fellow, was Seymour Duncan,and he made a name for himself out of this discovery.
But why buy any of his pickups?
Why should they sound any different than a stock pick up?
Why should a $15,000.00 Clearaudio cartridge sound any better than a $150.00 Grado?
They are both capable of doing the job.
Why spend more if you don't have to?
Well you don't.
Some folks are quite happy with a cheaper Grado, in a system of cheaper components using zip wire, stock power cords and straight into the wall.
And then there are those who aren't .
To appreciate the good stuff, you have to ween yourself away from the mediocre stuff, and forget about all the science that tells you nothing should make a difference.
That's the kind of belief in science that put the fear of falling off the edge of the earth into everyone's minds,until someone proved the science wrong.
I understand there are those who can not distinguish differences in power cords, fuses, etc,but all that proves is that they do not hear the differences.
THat doesn't mean that no one else can't or is incapable of hearing differences.
There could be many reasons for this,physical, gear related, lack of learning how to listen crtically,attention deficit disorders,or just the desire to use listening to music as a way to block out the stress of the day.Passive listening habits.
If all you want from your sound is a bit of relief, then why sweat the hard stuff trying to improve the sound?
That's just more work and stress.And it costs money, which I have other things that appeal more to me to spend it on.
But for me it's all about sweating out the details.
After I did, the listening experience was even more rewarding.
Power cords,and other things labelled snake oil have given me some of the best sound ever.
All I have to do is to take them out and go back to "stock"
to prove it to myself.
And I'm the only one I need to prove it to. |
JAH I think you've been away too long,and like Rip van Winkle much has changed over the years.Not all for the best.
Snakeoil is still here, but then back in your day lifting speakers off the floor on spikes and anything more costly than lamp cord was suspect.
I've been at this for 40 years, have many friends who have tinkered with this hobby for just as many years and what been great is that we have all benefitted one anothers mistakes and fortuitous discoveries.
Most recently a friend of mine(a gear swapping,never satisfied tortured soul) audiophile has discovered the joys of room tuning devices.
He always suspected snakeoil but now has seen the folly of his old ways thinking.
He could never hear differences in power cords and as such was always disappointed when a new fix proved to be no better than the last.
I kept telling him, the only thing that never changes is his room, and it is imposing it's presence on his components.Or, the room was masking any improvemnts to his sound.
And so it is with most any upgrade,power cords or fuses,if the room and power are not taken seriously, then most upgrade's effects will be compromised, or get tossed under the category of snakeoil.
Back in the old days it was easy to set up a system, plug it in and spin the tunes, and be contented.
Discontent only arrived with exposure to systems and gear that let you hear things in the music that you never heard in your own set up at home.
You had two choices:
1-accept what you have and live with it
2-set about doing something to improve your sound.
Choice 2 is not a choice to be taken mildly.
It can be expensive,can lead to years of regret,angst or it can lead to joy,and can go on for as long as you want it to.
Or you can simply walk away from it all as JAH has done.
But all is not lost when you buy that upgraded power cord.
It will still improve whatever component it's attached to.
I've used my Annacondas on everything from solid state and tube mono blocks, to a nice headphone amp,while overkil, it still made for a major improvemnt over the one that came in the box.
So it's back to the two choices- accept or move on. |
Could you please explain in more detail?
Please be a bit more specific.
What power cord?
What gear was it plugged into?
Have you done any room treatment?
Do you use dedicated lines,upgraded connectors?
Do you use any power line conditioning?
I can answer these questions.
Shunyata Annaconda Helix, Python CX
Acoustat tube servo amps, Cary 300SEI,Red Dragon mono blocks,DecWare Zen,Sme 10 power supply, Esoteric Xo3,Manley Steelhead.
ASC and DIY room treatment and some DIY difussion.
4 dedicated lines,20 amp breakers, Furutech R connectors, Furutech GTX D G inlet.
HiFi Supreme fuses in all components and WA chips on fuses.
Hydra 8 power conditioner for front- end gear, except cd player that on it's own separate dedicated line.
In my system,under the conditions outlined above,I can state emphatically that the shunyata power cords performed better than the stock power cords did.
I've done the comparison.
In no case with any of the components that I have tried them in, did the upgraded power cords fail to make an improvement in sound.
In fact even the stock power cord, when snipped of it's molded rubber connectors and cheap copper Furutech connectors added, is an improvement.
So that's how it workd for me, sorry to hear things didin't work for you. |
Thanks for answering my question?
One or two times that a power cord didn't improve the sound over the course of so many years and systems is proof enough for me.
So what multiple aftermarket cords did you try?
And on what did they not work?
Pretty simple I think.
I find it curious that since there were only one or two occassions,you should be able to remember what they were.
I am not attacking you, but I am curious.
As I've said, I've never met a component that didn't sound better with a better power cord.
And I can remember all the ones I've used them with.
I do agree with you that there are no absolutes in this hobby, as there are none in life.
Still being the curious type, I am left to wonder if I have owned either of those two pieces of audio gear,and that perhaps I came to a different conclusion.
Surely you should be able to remember the gear in question,
and perhaps others will share their experiences with it and stock power cord vs upgraded ones.
I can remember every mistep I've taken.
I think you would be doing us a big service by informing us of the mismatch so that others don't go down that same path. |
Thank you Foster9,I have a friend who can't seem to hear differences between cables,be they inter-connect or power cords,even when I can hear the difference they make when listening to them in his rig.
He has discovered that his right ear has 20% hearing loss.
What he has just discovered is that using 4 bass traps and 4 wall damping panels has improved his ability to discerne differences better than before he tried them.
In fact he was sure that the room tuning devices would be a waste of money, because of his hearing issues.
He is pleased that his latest investment in audio has given him so much pleasure and a renewed interest in listening again.
It's unfortunate you are among the few who cannot enjoy the benefits that upgraded power cords can bring to the experience. |
