From all I'm reading about Keith Herron, I'm starting to wish I was him!!!
Now, Jim Fosgate and Steve Deckert are pretty much up in the stratosphere too from what I can research.
All extremely talented people.
Pick A Tube Phono Preamp, but not just any Tube Phono Preamp
I am hoping some of the experts will help with the decision, I'm an audiophile newbie but learning much from the people here! One thing I have learned is that everything is in synergy, so a $30K preamp is out of place with a $1K amp. I already know I don't have the money to purchase truly exotic audiophile quality, somewhere I read you can get 90% of the way there at 30% of the price.
The tube phono preams are in the $1500 - $2000 range, but of course less $ would be OK if the quality is still there, and purchasing used here extends the possibilities.
I have a HOMC cartridge, Dynavector 10X5. I can't ever see getting a truly exotic LOMC cartridge, but maybe at some point I'd look for an upgraded MC cartridge. The 10X5 seems truly excellent though, but that is for a different time.
I'm thinking of an Allnic H1201, a bit beyond the upper $2000, the Eastern Electric Minimax Phono, which even new is $1500, and used is less, the Audible Illusions Modulus 3A, which used is in the range, but I'd be using the MM input, the Decware ZP3, and the EAR 834P. I'm thinking there may be others in the range that people here know of to think about.
The Modulus 3A has several other inputs besides the phono, which seems to be a benefit, but maybe then the phono portion has been a lesser focus than on a strictly phono preamp? The downside is to go to a LOMC cartridge it needs a new replacement board, which isn't tube based so that is a question. I'm thinking people would use a SUT and keep using the MM input, but I could be wrong.
The Eastern Electric just seems to be excellent quality, but it seems a fair amount of the price for it, as many of these, is to accommodate the LOMC cartridges. With the Decware ZP3, if you go with a LOMC, you then have to buy an additional ZMC, and get the correct one based on the cartridge. But that means the ZP3 is focused completely on the MM and HOMC cartridges, which seems to be a good thing. The end result though is that in the end the Decware may end up costing much higher than the $2000 upper limit.
The EAR834P seems to be highly recommended, but many of those recommendations are from people who've had it heavily modified. In factory stock condition it is still well thought of though. It is also possible to get the 834P for only MM, but once again in the long run that would be a questionable choice, it is probably better to get the MM/MC version at a higher price.
So it is a question, and I'll appreciate the opinions.
The tube phono preams are in the $1500 - $2000 range, but of course less $ would be OK if the quality is still there, and purchasing used here extends the possibilities.
I have a HOMC cartridge, Dynavector 10X5. I can't ever see getting a truly exotic LOMC cartridge, but maybe at some point I'd look for an upgraded MC cartridge. The 10X5 seems truly excellent though, but that is for a different time.
I'm thinking of an Allnic H1201, a bit beyond the upper $2000, the Eastern Electric Minimax Phono, which even new is $1500, and used is less, the Audible Illusions Modulus 3A, which used is in the range, but I'd be using the MM input, the Decware ZP3, and the EAR 834P. I'm thinking there may be others in the range that people here know of to think about.
The Modulus 3A has several other inputs besides the phono, which seems to be a benefit, but maybe then the phono portion has been a lesser focus than on a strictly phono preamp? The downside is to go to a LOMC cartridge it needs a new replacement board, which isn't tube based so that is a question. I'm thinking people would use a SUT and keep using the MM input, but I could be wrong.
The Eastern Electric just seems to be excellent quality, but it seems a fair amount of the price for it, as many of these, is to accommodate the LOMC cartridges. With the Decware ZP3, if you go with a LOMC, you then have to buy an additional ZMC, and get the correct one based on the cartridge. But that means the ZP3 is focused completely on the MM and HOMC cartridges, which seems to be a good thing. The end result though is that in the end the Decware may end up costing much higher than the $2000 upper limit.
The EAR834P seems to be highly recommended, but many of those recommendations are from people who've had it heavily modified. In factory stock condition it is still well thought of though. It is also possible to get the 834P for only MM, but once again in the long run that would be a questionable choice, it is probably better to get the MM/MC version at a higher price.
So it is a question, and I'll appreciate the opinions.
Showing 5 responses by the_treble_with_tribbles
Wow, I knew there were many experts here, I appreciate that so many people are also kind enough to reply! I was thinking maybe two responses!! First response to the Herron VTPH-2a, and that concurs with my research. Also, I have read many praises for Mr. Herron. Actually tried to purchase one used, but the guy never responded. That is really stretching past the $2000 limit, although, as stated, it is probably worth the reach at that point. I'm thinking that's true too with the Allnic H1201. So that is the second aspect of this search, many of the excellent ones I've found, and the other excellent ones I didn't know about, are rarely sold used. As nitewolf said, " typically you don't see them used because no one sells them." I don't know if I'll be able to follow varyat's good advice, as I tend to complicate everything, and then even with all of that still end up wondering if I did something wrong. I am wondering just how much dB gain the Dynavector 10X5 needs from the phono preamp. From the specs, it is 2.5mV, but I'm not sure if that is the only spec I need to look at. The specifications for the Decware SE34I.5 state it needs "2.5 volts for full output." I have also heard the many praises of the LOMC, but at least for now I'll have to attempt just to get this HOMC working. |
I am a newbie! I was reading varyat's previous posting, where VFM was mentioned. OK, that was an audio term I hadn't known, except I think it is "Value For the Money." There was actually a Manley Chinook on eBay, but I didn't jump in. It did look good. I think I'm understanding atmasphere's advice "consider a full function preamp." Which I'm thinking the Audible Illusions Modulus 3A is. It has 28dB for the phono, and then 30dB for the line stage, so the total of 58 is very close to the 60dB gain I had somehow come up with for the proper amount for the 10X5. And, thinking of what harrylavo said, the headquarters is in Daytona, which is within driving distance from me. I am still wondering though about the VTPH-2. It is a FET/tube hybrid I guess. From TheNeedleDoctor review, " It offers a level of vacuum-tube engineering (carefully combined with solid-state circuitry) that's rare at any price, unheard of at this one." So that is calling for more research, as I'm not sure what aspect the solid-state circuitry is doing. One aspect I'm starting to wonder about as I search used is how robust are these tube phono preamps? Should they last 8 years, 15 years, or many decades? And, I'm thankful for everybody who's taken time and replied, every response is helpful for me, and also appreciated too. |
This is interesting, as I'm still trying to figure this out after a fair bit of time, and the continuing comments are all appreciated. Yes, I had started to focus on the Chinook, as so many have said, and had now been looking at the Ares too. One thing I'm wondering a bit is that the Ares has four different gain settings but the Chinook only two. (And four has to be better than two?? LOL ) I read too about the Ares, and in the Stereophile article 1/13/10, by Erick Lichte it stated " The preamp can be run in all-tube or hybrid tube/solid-state to allow it to work with any cartridge you might want to throw at it. Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/ces2010/rogue_ares/index.html#i45xHSlAKojYqjzD.99"; So apparently at times it is gain only from the tubes, but other times it is not? And is the Chinook gain only from tubes, or is it also at times solid-state? And then finally, is that really a big deal anyway if the MC cartridge has gain increased with solid state? What is terrible is that I still can't find a definitive answer or a chart to how much gain is really needed with any given cartridge mV output. I then also wonder, as there is Ares and Ares Magnum, which one magazine said definitely improves over the regular Ares, but in the real world is that a huge benefit? I am thinking though that the quality of the parts being improved must be of some benefit even if it sounded the same? So, in a way I'm still fairly uncertain and still trying to figure this out. |