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Phono stage revealing limitations of cartridge?

Hi,
I just purchased an Ear 834P for my system. This is my first experience with tubes. I hooked it up and I immediately noticed an improvement over the stock phono stage on my integrated. There was a much more three dimensional presentation. However, after listening for a few minutes, I realized the sound was very thin, light on bass, and the highs were bright and grating. Also, the output of the Ear is really high, so much so that the volume knob on my amp is almost all the way at the bottom and moving it very slightly results in a dramatic increase in volume. I'm wondering what is causing the bright sound. Here are the possibilities I've come up with:

1. The Ear 84P is just revealing the limitations of my cartridge which the stock phono stage had just smoothed over.

2. The stock tubes in it have gone bad. (I'm planning on trying out some Jan Philips 5751's on it to see if that lowers the gain a bit.)

3. The unit is defective/the person that modded it screwed something up.

4. I'm getting some very low level RF interference. You can't here it at all when music is playing, but if you turn it up all the way you can hear it. Perhaps this is causing the brightness.

5. The Ear and the Rotel integrated are a mismatch.

I've tried using a different cable from the phono to my integrated and that didn't change anything. I also tried using a different input on the amp. I tried both MM and MC to confirm that I am using MM.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd be really grateful if someone could help me get this sorted out. I know there's a lot of questions here, but I thought tubes would result in warmth, not brightness!!!

BTW, my system: VPI Scout/JMW-9, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2 (2.5 mV), Signal Cable Phono Cable, Ear 834P Deluxe Phono Stage (modded but w/ original tubes), Rotel 1062 Integrated Amp, Blue Jeans speaker cables, Infinity 3500 speakers (circa 1981)
sinisterporpoise68

Showing 7 responses by sinisterporpoise68

sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
Thanks for all the help everyone. The Ear is connected to the AUX input of of the Rotel, not the phono input, so I'm alright there. From what everyone has said, a mismatch seems quite plausible. The Rotel is definitely on its way out. I was hoping I could get another year out of it, but maybe I can try to do something sooner.

In the meantime maybe I'll try out something from the Dynavector line. VPI seems to like the Dynavector 20X. Does anyone know a store in NYC that carries both VPI and Dynavector and could install the cartridge for me if I just brought in the arm?

Maybe a VPI phono cable would also be in order, since it uses the same wire as in the arm...
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
Thanks Thorman. I'm going to try out the Jan Philips 5751's when they arrive. I found a thread elsewhere in which someone recommended them. But if anyone else has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

On a positive note, I've left it on since I got home from work today and I just did a test with "Magattraction" by Girls Against Boys. I played this song last night and it was really grating (my wife had to cover her ears). But tonight after having the Ear on for 4 hours it sounded a lot better. Not quite there yet, but we both agreed it was better than last night. Perhaps it just needs a really strong warm up and break in.

By the way, how long should I leave it unplugged before opening it up to swap tubes? Do people just unplug it and swap and plug it right back in for some A/B testing? I was thinking I'd leave it unplugged for at least a day before doing that...
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
Sns,
I did try some different inputs on the Rotel. I started off using the CD input and then tried the AUX and Tape 1 inputs last night. Those allowed much more play with the volume knob, so I'm fairly certain those have less gain than the CD input. It actually did help things a bit. I had a lot more control over the volume.

And thank you for your faith in my cartridge installing ability. It's not the alignment I worry about, it's the getting the clips on and off the cartridge that worries me. I really don't want to break the tonearm wire (did that with my music hall). But I do realize that's something I need to learn to do.

Thanks to everyone for their help! I really appreciate it.
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
I'm nervous that if I went with the low output Dynavector, the RF interference I'm getting would be amplified. If I understand correctly, if I used the high output Dynavector, I'd be able to use it in the MM section of the Ear, just like I'm using the Blue Point right now. I wouldn't have to change the loading or impedence, right? But I'd still be in a position in which I have too much gain.

Although, when I have turned on the MC section of the Ear, I haven't been getting the interference when I turn the volume up all the way... There are too many variables here!!

I'll have to wait to make a decision until I get the 5751 tubes with lower gain to see if that helps me at all.
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
Hi all,

First off let me say thank you again to everyone who's responded. It's really generous of everyone to help me out with their suggestions, all of which are extremely helpful.

When I open up the Ear next week to change the tubes, I'll take a look at the settings and see if different loading settings help out at all.

For now, it's actually sounding pretty good today. I switched over to the Tape 2 input on the Rotel, which seems to have the least gain of any of the inputs--I had just assumed they would be all the same. I think that and letting it settle for a few days as well as leaving it on for extended periods to warm up have really made a difference. I'm getting some really decent bass now. The highs are still a bit bright, but it's definitely getting to a good place.

Everyone's suggestions have been so useful. I'm going to look into a new cartridge (the Dynavector 20X sounds like a good place to start), loading, tube choice, synergy, and possibly a new integrated. I really think I've gotten all I could out of the Blue Point and the Rotel and now that I've got the Scout and Ear it's time to move on in those departments. The Ear is definitely not as forgiving as the Rotel. I'll just need to find something that's a good match with the Scout, Ear, and my speakers!

I just tried ferrite clamps on the tonearm cable, but that didn't do anything about the RF. When I touch the tonearm cable or the tonearm, that's when the RF becomes really audible, but as long as I'm not touching them you can't hear a think at normal volumes. Maybe I should just ignore it? Larryi, thanks for the tip on the loading and the RF, I'll definitely look into this.
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
Hi all,
Got this figured out real quick when i opened the ear up to swap in new tubes: the tubes had been slightly dislodged during shipping. Either that or those stock tubes *really* sucked. I dropped in some Jan Phillips 5751's and this little box sings! I can't stop listening to records! Bass can be a little wooly at times but as the Ear warms up most of that gets corrected. This phono stage really sings and rocks. Music has never sounded so good in my house. Didn't even need to change the cartridge.

Thanks all for your generous help. Now to work on that RF...
sinisterporpoise68 OP
63 posts
 
This must be my lucky day. I just put in a VPI Phono Cable. RF interference gone. No more radio through the turntable. It really needs a good breaking in though.
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