Phono Preamp suggestions $2000 (pre-rabbit hole tire kicking edition)


Next on my upgrade list is a new phonostage. I have been using and enjoying a Lounge LCR MKIII which doesn’t do anything wrong. But, I feel its not an end game piece even for my (mid-fi at best) system.
So, ideally I would like:Fast and dynamic.Some warmth"muscular" type of presentation."You are there" type of clarity

Bonus points for:Mono switchFront/rear face controls (loading/cap/etc)MM only
Budget: $2000 or less
I have been searching all the various forums to come up with a list, and some are well reviewed and very popular but I am not sure they will be what I would like. Basically trying to narrow down a list and then try to get a demo (if thats even possible)
--Odyssey Suspiro Reference - fairly certain this will do the job beautifully, Klaus will send a me a loaner to try out. Fremer loved it.
--Sutherland 20/20 (used) - people fall over themselves for this one so its undoubtedly good. The consensus I get from all I have read it that it has no sound. Also that it doesn’t have the best bass, but that having subs remedies that (I guess?)
--LFD LE MM phono stage - recently caught wind of this one. Great reviews.
--Manley Chinook (used - 2012 version) - people seem to love this one. Googling seems to indicate it might have the type of sound I’m after.
--Aural Thrills Serenade - sporadically mentioned. The builder seems......super confident. TAS award winning so thats good.
--Rogue Ares Magnum (used) - Rogue gear is popular. I have no experience. Seems like a very good piece of equipment however.
--Don Sachs Phono - Super interested in this one. MM only, Could probably get a mono switch. Haven’t seen anything negative about it. I like thats it build to order (specs).
At this point I’m just looking to get a list of gear to rabbit hole and try to demo if possible.
Thanks in advance.
gochurchgo

Showing 3 responses by atmasphere

The problem you are up against with a phono section is that the cartridge and tonearm cable have an electrical resonance that can really mess with the front end of a phono section. The resonance can easily overload the input section of the preamp, generating a tick or a pop that sounds for all the world as if its on the LP surface!

The first time I experienced this was about 33 years ago with an employee’s preamp using a Grado cartridge. To be clear, with a MM cartridge that peak can be about 20dB, which with a MM cartridge can be about 5 Volts! Many MM phono sections can’t handle that sort of level, so they make distortion. The thing is, the peak is ultrasonic, so most of the time you can’t hear it (unless you have a tonearm cable that has high capacitance- the higher the capacitance, the lower the frequency of the peak). The distortion is heard as a tick or a pop.

Its far easier to design a phono section using tubes to get a nice high overload margin. With opamps and discreet transistors it can be difficult. So if an opamp is used, its gain must be kept low so it won’t be overloaded. Many designers just don’t think about the implications of this electrical peak, so many inexpensive solid state designs have this problem. It seems that Pass Labs has built good phono sections that have good overload margins- I don’t know if they have one in your price range but its worth a look. 47 Labs makes a very competent phono section that features a current-mode input, and its gotten good reviews. I mention that one becaase it appears that the current mode input has some advantages with reducing the effect of the electrical peak.


If you google ’current mode phono preamp’ you’ll find that 47 Labs is by no means the only manufacturer using current mode inputs. If I were going solid state that kind of phono section is what I would look at first!
I agree about 'slam' but seriously, 'dynamics' usually means distortion. This is because the ear uses the higher ordered harmonics in order to sense how loud a sound is. When the electronics is adding higher ordered harmonics even in very small amounts, the ear interprets this as both brightness and 'dynamics'.


Real musical contrasts (dynamic contrast) can only come from the recording. It really isn't a property of electronics unless those electronics have problems with higher ordered harmonic distortion. This has fueled the tubes/transistors debate for 60 years. Its why tubes are still around decades after they should have been obsolete.

If you want a solid state preamp that isn't bright, you'll want one that is op-amp based and probably doesn't has less than 20dB of gain for any opamp in the circuit. To do this requires quite a lot of feedback (over 40dB) and this allows the opamp to not generate the higher ordered harmonics. But it won't sound 'dynamic' either because its not making distortion- it will simply sound like the music its reproducing.
I really never know when I'll get a chance to spin a couple sides so warm up time could be a factor.
Most tubes in a preamp take 20 seconds. And then about 1/3 hour to an hour to sound their best. By contrast most solid state preamps don't sound right for about a day; I found I had to leave my solid state preamp on 24/7...

As far as 'dynamics'... IME when audiophiles talk about 'dynamics' they are most often (about 90% of the time) actually talking about distortion, and if you swap the word 'distortion' for that of 'dynamics' the meaning of the conversation is unchanged. The brightness of solid state is caused by distortion, since the ear assigns a tonality to any form of distortion- its literally the difference between tube and solid state. But FWIW, the dynamic character of the music comes from the recording, not the playback circuit. If it appears to come from the latter, in all cases its because distortion is masquerading as 'dynamics'. If you want lower distortion, seek 'smooth and detailed'. Smoothness is a lack of higher ordered harmonics, detail is often associated with brightness but it really doesn't work that way! When its **both** smooth **and** detailed that's when you are really making progress.