>>a piece of string will sound better than USB!
And Fonzie just jumped a shark, 2 buses, a '73 Chevy Impala and a dozen llamas. |
Ok, I'll open my mind and consider all possibilities, including Cerrot's. Let me tell you what I currently have, please tell me if there's a better way for me to transfer data:
- My listening room is my office, a room about 12x12.
- My PC is connected via Belden USB cable directly to a Peachtree Grand Integrated X-1 integrated amp with built in ESS9018 DAC, which powers a pair of Wilson Benesch Arcs. It sounds pretty incredible, though I've not tried Cerrot's suggestion to connect the components using a piece of string - that does seem like an inexpensive solution, as long as my cat doesn't try to run away with the string ;-)
- The Peachtree has the onboard X-1 update, with the XMOS chip, 24/192 capability, asynch, galvanic isolation, for what that's worth.
- My PC is not ancient, 2012 purchase I think, and it has USB, Optical toslink, Firewire and HDMI outputs. It does not currently have a coaxial/spdif orange connector, hence the reason I currently connect via USB.
- I was told by Peachtree that I need not bother with the optical output since it was limited to 24/96.
I confess to not being as technically inclined as many of you, though I think I know enough to be skeptical of using string, but given the equipment I have should I be trying to find a way to install an SPDIF PCI card in my computer to allow that connection, or are their better connections available using Firewire (or HDMI through a converter box?), or am I not likely to be able to improve upon USB given the capabilities of the particular Peachtree that I have?
All joking aside, thanks in advance. |
And by the way, Scott I hope you don't mind my temporarily hijacking your thread - hopefully given that my question is similar to yours, regarding USB vs. other methods, there's value in the answers for you as well. |
Hi Lofarasa, thanks for the help. Ok, here's some feedback on what you're asking:
- running JRiver 19, fully updated, WASAPI using the Peachtree X-1 24/192 driver. No enhancements running, EQ off, so the JRiver sound isn't being boosted in any way.
- connected an Onkyo DV-CP802 universal disc changer via coax to the Peachtree, with Journey "Escape" in the player. Queued up a song on the Onkyo, and the exact same song in JRiver (ripped AIFF lossless), started one then then started the other 10 seconds later. And the USB & Coax input buttons are side by side, so I can switch between the songs almost instantly to hear the difference. The difference is dramatic - it sounds dramatically better playing from JRiver on the computer, than the same song on the CD player via coax. More air, more delicacy, better instrument separation, pretty much better everything. Difference not subtle either - which honestly surprised me. I thought they'd be a lot closer, and if one was going to be better it would be the CD. But I know it's not quite an apples to apples comparison...maybe the transport in the Onkyo is just horrible, killing the comparison?
- my USB cable is just a $12 Belden Pro...nice cable, but nothing fancy, if that info helps.
Does this info help at all? |
Cerrot, have you actually spent time listening to a Peachtree X-1 Grand? I'm not asking to make you feel defensive, I'm genuinely asking to understand whether you're speaking in hypotheticals, or have actually listened to a system using an X-1 and then found that same system was improved by avoiding the X-1's USB? Can you provide any of the specifics with the Peachtree X-1 you listened to, i.e. was it running with a Mac or PC, which software they were using, what speakers, etc?
Because I am a tinkerer - I like to experiment, and I'd try an ESI sound card just for kicks, seriously. If I didn't like it, I could eBay it, so I'm not afraid to try things just for the sake of learning about different methods and equipment.
And what has caused you to come to the conclusion that Peachtree's X-1 XMOS-asynch implementation is unable to control jitter properly?
If you could hear my system, I don't think you'd find the sound objectionable, but we all hear things differently. What sounds wonderful to me may sound like bat guano to someone else. |
Loftarasa, I do believe Peachtree's implementation of USB is good, and I agree that any attempts to improve upon it via an outboard converter will be expensive - I think I'd be chasing miniscule improvements for big dollars, and I've got better things to do with the money. I do appreciate everyone's input - it's all a learning experience. |
Yeah Cerrot, something just isn't adding up. You bought a $4500 Integrated amp, listened to it through SPDIF and found it involving and emotional, and then you returned it? I assume this to be the case, because you no longer have it, and I'm doubting you carted your Gateway PC to a dealer. If it belonged to your friend, and he still had it, obviously something was working right for him - why didn't you judge it in his system, rather than cart all that equipment to your place in order to judge it on your computer, a component that can swing the results wildly in either direction if not setup properly? It just isn't making sense to me.
Maybe your issues with USB are an issue with either your computer, or the way you're outputting the audio from the computer. Even forgiving the inane hyperbole in saying that you can get better sound from a string than from USB, your anecdotal evidence just doesn't add up for me. And even if I accepted all of it, that you bought a $4500 integrated amp, found the sound involving and emotional through the input of your choice, yet returned it because you didn't like the input that you would never have used anyway, there are too many variables to account for why you're getting "garbage" and other people get great sound. You want to write off all USB implementations, and I'm not ready to go there yet. |
Maybe asynch is it, Mapman. I don't know why music streamed from Jriver on my computer via USB sounds better than the exact same song played from CD into the same exact DAC via spdif, but it does. And in exchanging emails with Peachtree, they don't seem surprised that the USB performance is so good - I presume it's the reason they went to so much trouble to update units out in the field with the X-1 update that included the XMOS chip and asynch USB implementation. Of course, I wish I'd conducted this test before my original post regarding these connections - from everything I'd read, I thought I was missing the boat in connecting through USB, but my ears now tell me otherwise. And Loftarasa may be right, as well. If I dropped another $600 on an Audiophileo (if I'm looking at the right one), maybe the pendulum swings back in the other direction. |
Cerrot, I'm not sure I'm following your question. I'll do any comparisons I can, if I have the equipment to do them. Are you asking if I've done a comparison of SPDIF vs. USB from the SAME source? If that's the question, unfortunately my computer doesn't have SPDIF out, only toslink and USB. So I can compare toslink vs. USB from the same source (computer), but not SPDIF. Likewise, from my CDP I can compare SPDIF vs. toslink, but my CDP does not have USB out. I don't have any single source that has USB and SPDIF together.
The only SPDIF comparison vs. USB I can do is connecting a CDP into the Peachtree via SPDIF and the computer into the Peachtree via USB, and play the same exact song at the same exact time on the computer and on the CDP and switch back and forth between the two instantly by just hitting the input selector buttons. Is that what you're asking? Please clarify so I understand your wording, thanks. |
>>>Guys - just ask yourself the question - why do puters have USB? It AINT for audio!
Cerrot, I'm not sure why you keep saying this. The idea behind USB was to improve connectivity while allowing for adequate bandwidth - the idea behind it wasn't based specifically around a particular kind of data, it was to improve connectivity and allow hot-swapping without rebooting, and the daisy-chaining of devices. The type of data wasn't the crux of USB, it was the allowance of easier connectivity, although of course bandwidth played a big role in the design of USB and the bandwidth of USB is more than enough for audio data from a computer. You keep intimating that USB was designed for mice, or printers - that isn't true. It was designed for better connectivity overall, of everything - it just so happened that mice, printers and keyboards benefited first because those were the devices that most people had connected. But it was just as beneficial for graphic designers connecting those $5000 Epson photo scanners as for the grandma with her $10 mouse.
USB was introduced while I was going through my computer-geek phase, building my own machines, and I've read the white papers on USB. I know exactly why it was designed and the problems it was made to alleviate. It wasn't designed for audio specifically, just as it wasn't designed for high-end photo scanners specifically. USB was not about limiting or accomodating any specific end use, it was about removing connectivity limitations. |
You're probably right, Cerrot, my "rig" may not be as revealing as yours. My system is still a virgin, doesn't keep a diary, and won't even consider its own Facebook account. I'm sure lots of other systems are much more revealing. My system chooses to remain private - it's very introverted, but I guess you just have to take the time to get to know it. |
