Sent a note to Kal for info. Waiting to hear back.
I wonder how much better the SE version will sound. |
P.S. Just checked ARC's webs site and the ARCDB web site. So far, no mention of an SE version. Of course, the web sites might not be up to date. |
P.S.S. did a general web search. No information identified yet. |
Kal responded. ARC will be making a formal announcement within a month or two.
The plan is to upgrade the ARC Ref 75, 150 and 250. Kal was a bit unclear what the changes will be other than the SE upgrades will include KT-150 tubes and misc circuit and component changes. |
Herb ... did you take delivery yet?? Anything to report? |
Tsushima1 .... I think it was you who said that the cost for a Ref 150 SE upgrade would be roughly $3000. If so, more than half the value would represents tubes ($1600, or 8 x $200/per tube). The other half ... who the heck knows.
Kal said he did not think changing out power or output trannies was part of the SE upgrade. Just other "proprietary" parts and circuit changes. I am dubious that ARC would try and stuff any more power supply caps into the chassis ... not enough real estate left.
Kal said that the SE upgrades will be available soon. Perhaps more details will be forthcoming. |
Spoke to Kal today. He told me it was ok to put KT-150s into the Ref 150. Hallelujah ... Moschiach has arrived.
But wait ... there's more. The cost to upgrade the Ref 150 to the SE grade is $5000. Of course, that includes all new tubes --- KT-150s and 6H30s.
Kal said the objective of the SE upgrade is to tune the amp to take full advantage of the benefits of the KT-150 tube. Kal added that the improvement is on the order of going from the Ref 5 to the Ref 5 SE.
Five grand is a lot of scratch! The Ref 5 SE upgrade was only $2500. |
P.S. Kal commented that the Ref 150 SE will make Maggie 3.7i speakers sound heavenly. |
David ... I ask myself the same question. I have about 50 to 75 hours on my KT-150s. Yes ... they sound better than the KT-120s, but not good enough IMO to justify the cost of $100 per tube.
I may be among the first group of schmucks to spring for the SE upgrade, but I feel like a schmuck for even considering the investment.
And btw, $5000 for tubes and "proprietary" parts, ... I hope they throw the snake oil in too.
BIF |
Tennisdoc, how big should a room be to take proper advantage for the 3.7s? |
I wonder if ARC intends to phase out the current Ref line and replace it with the SE version at the increased prices. Or perhaps the current Ref version stay and the new SE versions fill in the gap between the current Ref line and the G series.
I also wonder if ARC intends to fill out the G series line. Possibilities might include a GS-250 and GS-750.
Dunno ... of course. But it seems that ARC is going up-market. |
Ref 150 SE update status: spoke with ARC on Friday. My amp is on the bench, waiting for some parts to be delivered to ARC. Fingers crossed that it might be finished and shipped on Monday or Tuesday and received before end of next week. Hope that is not wishful thinking. |
@Oregonpapa ... looking forward to reading your comments. Did ARC tell how long the break-in period is?
Btw, I mentioned this above, but think it is worth repeating that Kal at ARC advised me that ARC has finally gotten around to blessing the KT-150 for use in the "regular" Ref 75 and Ref 150.
I bought 2 quads of KT-150s for my Ref 150 a couple of weeks ago. Yes, my amp sounds better. But 15% to 20% better might be a stretch.
Kal assured me that the SE version would make much better use of the KT-150s because revisions "tune" the amp to better match the KT-150s. Not sure what that means, but hearing is believing. I look forward to reading Oregonpapa's comments. |
Thanks Knghifi for the TAB link. I wonder if the SE version comes with a new fascia.
I'm holding judgment until I read some member comments and catch a review or two. |
Oregonpapa ... yea ... keeping am eye on this thread. Very much looking forward to your early comments. Thanks for being an early guinea pig test subject. Try to stay objective. My upgrade will be almost twice the cost of yours and I'm kinda' relying on objective feedback.
Btw, how much did you harvest on the "old" KT-150s? I gather you sold them. If so, on eBay or A'gon???
Thanks. I'm kinda' livin' the experience vicariously through you. :) |
Thanks Frank. I just answered your PM. Btw, I agree with the win-win deal scenario. Hope you get your new Ref 75 SE this week. Very interested in reading your comments. |
Herb ... add my name to the list. My Ref 150 was delivered to ARC yesterday for the SE upgrade. Kal said my amp would go into the queue and wait its turn for the upgrade.
Kal also said that there is only one tech dedicated to doing the SE upgrades, so it will likely take 2 weeks before my amp is completed. I'll report back when I get more news.
Looking forward to learning/experiencing for myself whether the SE upgrade is all that some have made it out to be. |
Herb, was it apparent to you if ARC changed out the power supply caps? |
ARC is shipping my Ref 150 SE tomorrow. Hopefully, will get it on or before Friday.
Spoke to Kal today about the power supply caps. He said the SE version uses the same PS caps as the older Ref 150 (sans upgrade).
I'll share comments too as I rack up hours. Kal said break-in for an upgraded amp is about 125 hours, but it will sound pretty good out of the box. |
@Oregonpapa -- Yeah ... well I hope I'm still alive to find out. ARC shipped it to me on The Slow Boat to China Trucking Company. I just call ARC to see if they can use The Road Runner Trucking Company. Hoping they can. Otherwise, I won't get my amp until next week.
Sh*t ... I shipped it via FexEx Ground to ARC and it took 3 business days to get it from Philly to ARC. |
Oregonpapa ... Kal said the Ref 150 is just too big for UPS and FedEx and ARC insists on using a pallet. Box and amp weigh 90 pounds. Don't know how much the Ref 75 weighs. Well that's the story anyway. Looks like the amp is scheduled to be delivered this Friday after all.
Based on Herb's reports, looks like I gotta break it in a bit before I hear the benefits. Ce la vie. |
Got the amp back yesterday. The sound is "bigger" for sure. Will save detail comments after more listening and break-in. Kal said the amp needs 125+ hours. But I surmise that I'll hear a lot of the improvements much sooner than that.
As an aside, ARC shipped the amp on a pallet as stated. Even still, the box was gouged in a few spots. Fortunately, no damage to the amp or tubes.
Let's face it ... moving heavy, bulky gear around is risky business. |
Still early to post detailed comments. The sonic color of the amp is still morphing ... first dark and now bright. I only have about 25 to 30 hours on the amp. |
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Just have 45 hours. Getting better. It sounds better on some source music selections than others. Still to early to say. But it definitely sounds different that the Ref 150 avec KT-120s. |
Ok ... my amp has racked up 100+ hours. My impressions are very positive. The music sounds liquid and open. The amp's ability to drive my speakers is effortless, particularly at loud dynamic transients.
Imaging and sound stage are great.
All in all .. much better sounding than before. |
Oregonpapa ... I'm over a hundred hours and am probably "there" for the most part. But ... my Ref 150 was already well broken-in prior to the SE upgrade. Kal said the new SE upgrade parts (e.g., coupling caps) only need about 125 hours or so to break-in.
In contrast, you bought a new Ref 75 SE off the line. If the usual ARC break-in period guidelines still apply, you're only half way there.
Enjoy. I already am enjoying. |
Tsushima, I do not know which parts were replaced. The only "obvious" change that I can perceive is the coupling caps. They are still white, but slightly different looking. That's about all I can say. I have no real idea about what else was done ... above or below the circuit board.
All I can say is that the amp sounds better than it did before. Kal told me off the cuff that the Ref 150 SE is roughly equivalent in SQ to the GS-150. |
Kal did say that the SE upgrade included new coupling caps, but he didn't state much else about their type or specs.
Btw, you described the new caps as Gold PP film types Other than a new white plastic can, I can't tell if the news caps are the type you describe. I just checked under the hood. The caps have a number designation of H3275. They are rated at 425V and I think 2 mF.
Tsushime, I just got a nasty shock when I put the cover back on. My finger brushed against the PS caps. Please control your curiosity. :( |
Dull/flat white cans. The new caps are in shinier white plastic cans. As I previously posted, I do not know anything about the innards of the CCs. Why not call or e mail Kal and ask him? I learned my lesson about fiddling around with my amp.
In the meantime, the electric shock I previously posted about left me with an interesting side effect. Like Uncle Fester, I can energize light bulbs. I surmise that I absorbed 1040 joules of stored energy. |
Yes Oregonpapa, I did notice the new wires and the odd twist. That's the part that cost $5,000. LOL NOT :(
@Tsushima ... someone else asked me whether the SE upgrade included new PS caps. During a follow up call with Kal, he said no. And he also assured me that the SE upgraded Ref amps are identical to the Ref SE amps coming off the line.
That may not directly answer your question about the gold caps, but it should assure you that ARC is not putting 2 classes of Ref SE amps out in the market place. There are no second class citizen SE amps.
In a certain way, I like the idea that my Ref 150 amp was upgraded to SE status as compared to coming off the line as an SE amp. Reason: my Ref 150 was fully broken in when it went back to the factory. And it was a necessary part of the SE rebuild process that the amp was checked over from bow to stern. I take that as a good fact.
Oregonpapa ... the Ref 150 SE sounds terrific. I'm listening to Linda/Nelson records now and googling over Linda. I love her. |
