Neutral Dac?

@soix @oddiofyl Thank you both for weighing in those helpful examples.

@hilde45 i agree and hate the word neutral so how about if I substitute the term “dac that minimizes coloration” .

@audphile1 I appreciate your time and thought in your response and apologize if my response offended you…not my intent at all. I appreciate your advice about not seeking out absolute neutrality in system building.
Maybe I should put a little more “meat on the bones” of my point/question as the lack of background has led the thread a bit astray. I’ve been afflicted with the hobby for close to 25 years. If you look at my feedback (which embarrassingly is probably only half the transactions) you’ll see I’ve rifled through way too many speakers/amps/sources. For future system building I’m just trying to assemble a few pieces to use as neutral/relatively uncolored benchmarks to compare against. They won’t necessarily be in my primary system (but might depending on synergy).
For me, too much seasoning in a system with compensating one colored component for another is not the approach I want to take and believe there’s usually a spot or 2 where uncolored gear improves the system…hence my question about what people view as a neutral/uncolored dac.

@audphile1 

I agree about measurements and cost. Apparently asking peoples opinions about what they consider an uncolored dac is unanswerable in your opinion. Thanks for weighing in. 

@mlsstl  Well said but I'd argue there isn't a single forum discussion that isn't ultimately meaningless. That being said I have experienced some dacs that have a lot more "personality" than others and curious about people's opinions of dacs that are the amp equivalent of "straight wire with gain". I'm trying to stay away from the concept of system synergy.

@2psyop Thanks for weighing in. Ironically one of the 2 of those manufacturers makes a dac that I consider to have very little personality(exactly what I'm asking about). I've not heard the other brand.

@audphile1 in that $5k ballpark what dacs would you put in the “natural” category?

@grannyring  Hey Bill that is awesome thank you. I know we both use the Circle Labs A200 so knowing there’s synergy is helpful and Tron is not a dac that was on my radar. Colin is a great guy and also using his tchernov usb cable which is amazing(I still have your Acoustic BBQ usb and still think very highly of it). Knowing you well and trusting your ears, your recommendation holds great weight and thank you!

@jjss49  good question. For me uncolored is a dac that has an even tonal balance(not tilted up or rolled off on either end, has proper tone saturation(not stark and clinical or overly saturated and vivid), and one that has proper dynamics with both leading edge attack and decay that is similar to live music. Other criteria like soundstaging and black background are of less importance to me. 

@tvad Thank you for your input. I agree the tonal saturation piece is a fine line and it's synergy with your amp is often walking the tightrope. I was not a fan of the Meitner MA3 but I believe a different designer than the EMM if I'm not mistaken. Did you have a favorite among those dacs?

@tvad I made the mistake of using the ethernet input only (bought it to eliminate the need for a streamer) and all I can say is that I thought there was something wrong with it. There was etched highs and diminished one note bass. I let it run in (purchased new) and it made little difference. I hesitate to disparage the dac because I am told the usb and other inputs sound fantastic and don't want to discourage those from having it on their radar but be aware the ethernet input is not the dac's strength.

@soix I was hoping to avoid price but I’m willing to spend $15k. I would prefer to spend $199. I recognize the sweet spot is somewhere between but find myself lately thinking “how low can you go”?. I often find my expectations for 5 digit equipment gets in the way of my enjoyment because often the differences are relatively small compared to lower cost gear and my preconceived idea that a $14,000 dac should make me breakfast and rub my feet. The only thing I’ve ever bought that I thought was absolutely worth every dollar close to $10,000 is the Circle Labs A200 amp. Again I really didn’t want to get into price points and budgets and really appreciate @ghdprentice recommendation of the Schiit Yggdrasil. I’ve followed his posts in the past and believe we have similar opinions. I’m actually listening to the Schiit Modius and absolutely caught up in the music. I recognize it doesn’t soundstage like other dacs but timing is so spot on and tone/timbre are shockingly good at a throw away price. I know there’s a happy answer somewhere south of $10k and would ultimately like to stay there. I have the utmost respect for @grannyring and know anything he says I can take to the bank but would ultimately not like to put $14k in a dac unless I just can’t find happiness with something less expensive. Im dragging my heels at the moment but may ultimately cave and get the Tron…hoping someone will save me from myself.

@mlsstl Very well said and I think that’s exactly the path I will take. The idea of having an expensive dac sounds sexy but I’m wise enough to know that chasing the dragon of the “perfect system” isn’t possible. Thanks for validating my own thought process and @ghdprentice thoughts as well. I honestly appreciate everyone’s input on this thread.

**Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More just purchased new from Schiit. It’s at a price point I’d rather support their business than buy preowned at a discount. I’m not opposed to buying Chinese dacs but do have a sense of pride when I support an American company. Thanks again to everone.