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Narrowed to 3: 802D3, Sopra 3, Reference 3

Hi all,
Here's the situation:
Room is 14x17 with vaulted ceilings from 9" to 14", and the room is mostly open to a foyer with high ceiling and is about 10x10.

I'm currently running a setup scavenged from my home theater:
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > Rotel RC-1590 Preamp > Rotel RB-1582 mk2 amp > B&W 805 D3

The sound overall is excellent, but it's a little bright and lacks bass presence (as you'd expect for a 2 way bookshelf). Here are my top speakers I've auditioned:

B&W 802D3 ( Auditioned with: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C52 > McIntosh 601) at Magnolia

KEF Reference 5 (Auditioned with Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C47 > McIntosh MC452) at Magnolia at the same time as the 802.

Focal Sopra 3 (Auditioned with NAIM DAC > NAIM NAP 500 DR Amp - 140W per channel) at difference location

I also heard the KEF Reference 3 and Blade but ruled them out, the Ref 3 for sound, and the Blade for price and it being kind of ugly.

Here's the thing, I feel like I'm not sure what to get. I love the general sound of the 802, but I'm afraid even with the MC452 it'd be a bit bright. It also really lacked the presence in the bass like the Reference 5.

The Reference 5 sounds wonderful, and the bass is prolific, but I'm a little concerned about it being too warm. I heard the Ref 5 and 802s in the same room with virtually the same equipment, back to back, and they were so very different. The Ref 5 was warm, with rich full mids, that maybe were even too lush, with bass so good I honestly thought the subwoofer was on.

The 802 had good bass, but nothing to write home about (and it even had the more powerful 601 monoblocks), but the clarity was astounding, I just fear it'll be a little too bright for my room, which seems to lean bright already. That said, there is just something so exciting about the sound of this speaker playing orchestral. The problem was I much preferred the KEF for rock/r&b.

Then, to add to the mix, I liked the Focal Sopra 3 a lot, but I also felt it lacked bass presence, though it was on the weakest amp by a wide margin. The Focal seemed to be the middle ground between the B&W and KEF, but the bass concerned me. I'm not a bass nut, but I do want my bass to be powerful and don't want to have to add a sub. (Even for orchestral, I felt the Focal lacked a bit in the low cello and bass parts)

My plan was to keep the Mytek, and probably get a McIntosh C47 and MC452 or MC462, as I think the Rotels are probably too bright and underpowered for any of these setups. I was definitely hitting 300+W on the 802s during my audition while listening to orchestral music.

Thoughts? Is the KEF really that pudgy in the middle, is the B&W really that bright, and does the Sopra 3 really lack bass presence?

p.s. I thought the Blade was better balanced, but also still pretty warm.


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Showing 9 responses by joey_v

joey_v
648 posts
 
At this time, I have Rotels on the Focal Kanta 2 and the Sonus Faber Olympica 3.

The BW 802D3 is in the big rig.

DAC: Emm Labs TSDx transport + Emm Labs DAC2x dac
Preamp: Cary Audio Tube SLP-05
Amp: Boulder 2060 Stereo Class A Amplifier
Interconnects: XLR (standard cabling, yes I need to upgrade but budget budget budget!)
Power System: Torus RM15 Distributor
Power Cords: Audioquest NRG-WEL x 4
Speaker Wire: Audioquest WEL 8ft Single-Biwire

Dedicated room, nearly fully treated (66% done with the room, need maybe 2 more shipments from GIK to complete, need more diffusors and bass traps).

People say that you have to hear XYZ speaker in all its glory with the best upstreams, I think I read that in one of the posts above regarding the KEFs.

Well, you have to also keep in mind that the demo for the 802D3 is subpar... wait until you hear it in the best and most tweaked upstreams. I have had several big time speakers come by, and I still kept with the 802D3.

I have had Sonus Faber Stradivari and Rockport Aviors in my room.

BTW, if you have the room, the 800D3 is a more complete version of the 802D3.... I had the 800D3 in my room also, but I traded down to the 802D3 after having it for a couple months just because the bass was a little much.  I believe you need a room that is atleast 21 feet deep for the 800D3, whereas you can get away with an 18ft room with the 802D3.  Those last 3 feet make a difference. 
joey_v
648 posts
 
I have the 802d3... one of the best transducers at that price point if you mate it well with components and room.

I also own the Focal kanta 2 and the sonus Faber olympica 3 so I am well versed with different House sounds.

For me, it goes BW then Focal then SF.

But I can see where the Sopra 3 can beat out the 802d3 in some settings.
joey_v
648 posts
 
I think control the room, and you will be happy with the 802d3.

Heck I think any of those 3 and you’re still beyond 99% of the population.

Re my system, it was built for the sole purpose of pushing whatever speaker I had beyond reasonable limits, it’s not typical.  Because I bought smart, my total cost is approx 60 for all not including room.
joey_v
648 posts
 
Hello MAW,

I agree with audiotroy, I had issues with PS Audio P5, though I did not experiment with the P10 or the newest P20, maybe those are different. However, I felt that they compressed the overall feel of the sound, enough that even though I only plugged in the ancillary upstreams, it was eeough that I sold it.

The Torus RM15 is a different beast. Much better than the PSA P5, I had them both at the same time in my room. I did not plug the amp/Boulder 2060 into either on a regular basis.

I did try the Boulder into the Torus the other day, mostly because it was raining and lightning around my area, I noticed a loss of definition as well.

So, I would suggest:
1. Power conditioning is important, mostly for non-amplifier upstreams.
2. Power cords are important, the most important I noted was gauge of wiring. I use all WEL NRG which are silver, I am not sure if the silver improves on a copper wire.... I do have the NRG10, I should try them out against each other some day.
3. Wires are important, I am sure when I upgrade my XLR to the AQ Fire, I will experience some benefit, however, definitely the speaker wire is a good way to improve the system sound, I adore my AQ WEL, I am sure they will come out with something better at AQ, but I’m not spending $30,000 on an 8ft pair for a minute improvement.

Re my system cost, yes, most was acquired used. The speakers were brand new however from my local dealer.

Break down of cost was:
Approx 19 for the Bowers.
Approx 18 for the Boulder
Approx 10 for the Emm digital front end dac and transport 2 box unit/stack
Approx 4 for the preamp
Approx 1.5 for the Torus RM15 power unit
Approx 5K for the speaker cables
And I got the 4x 1m NRG WEL for free (long story)

I think that breakdown of pricing is fair for the speakers. Approx 20% for the cabling is a fair budget. And an amp that is about the cost of the speakers or less is fair. DAC does a tremendous difference, maybe 20+% of the budget goes to that.

My next moves will likely be:
1.  Finish room treatments, need diffusors and bass traps. 
2.  AQ Fire someday
3.  Subs x2
4.  Cary SLP05 transition into Ref5se preamp
5.  Try AQ Hurricane at the power conditioner to the wall. 
joey_v
648 posts
 
Let’s PM
joey_v
648 posts
 
All the best Michael

Good system choice btw
joey_v
648 posts
 
Namar57

The previous 800 series non Diamond or even the D2 series are not like the D3.  Moot point. 
joey_v
648 posts
 
Playing with my system last night.  Found out my right channel was 2 inches off laterally so I fixed that.  Now the sound is perfect again.

Even my 4 year old daughter was like - play another violin, Dad!

It’s spooky real when the stars align with these 802d3
joey_v
648 posts
 
Mike

looking forward to it!

also I was swapping speaker wire last night just to make sure I wasn’t delusional.  Yep, AQ Wel was very different sounding than the stock 12g wire I had. 

I was hoping the AQ weren’t any different then I could sell them and make money. 
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