My System....where to start on the upgrade path


I’ve been in this hobby for only 2 years, so I have much to learn. I have questions about my overall system and didn’t know where to post them so I thought I’d give this forum a try. I read many of the forum comments on a weekly basis but I don’t post often because I haven’t felt that I had a solid enough background to share my opinion. I do have a very good ear, so I don’t mind sharing something I’ve heard if I think it sounded especially good.

I have decided that something is my system is lacking. I want the music to open up more. I want the various instruments to stand out more. I like listening to music at low levels, but I want to be able to raise the volume to real world levels and still retain that separation without the music sounding “jumbled” As you can see I don’t know all the proper audiophile terms so please just bare with me.

System:
Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers
Pathos Classic MKIII integrated with Electro-Harmonix 6922EH tubes
Cambridge 840c CD player
Thoren TD-160 HD turntable(modified by George Merrill
Ortofon AS-212S Tonearm
Dynavector 20X Cartridge
Sutherland PhD MC phono preamplifier
Ginko Cloud Audio Vibration platform(turntable)
Acoustic Zen Satori Speaker Cables
Acoustic Zen Wow interconnects
Bruce Brisson’s Giant Killer power conditioner( I can’t hear the difference with it)
Room: 23’7” x 15’4” x 9’3”
Speakers are along the short wall.
4 large plate glass windows along one of the long walls can be covered by heavy blackout Roman shades.
Glass sliding doors on the short wall opposite the speakers can be covered with heavy blackout drapes.
Heavy rugs on the Pergo covered concrete floor
Lots of upholstered furniture

Will tube rolling in the Pathos make a dramatic difference?
Amp-speaker match-up?

I’m trying to figure out where to start. I feel like I need more bass.
I know that this is painted with a broad brush, but if I can gets some good feedback, then maybe I can ask some more specific questions. Thanks Catfishbob
catfishbob

Showing 7 responses by catfishbob

Thanks guys. The long wall is probably "no can do". I've put some thought in trying to do it, but my my house is small and my living room, where the system is, has a fireplace and four large picture windows on one long wall, and two large doorways, a pass through window into the kitchen and a small wet bar on the other long wall. I would love to try it though.

I have put a lot of thought into room acoustics. I even looked at a Lyndorf room correction devise at RMAF last fall. I could put some dampening on the wall behind the speakers. Every other square foot of wall space is occupied with doorways or furniture. I could buy a couple of thousand dollars worth of those tiny Tibetan prayer bowls and spread them about! I found the company, "Eighth Nerve" that seemed to have something that I might could have used, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I wish I could TRY some different components but I dont have local dealers.

What magnitude of improvement could one expect to hear after installing separate electrical circuits?

I went to RMAF last year just to find out what I might be missing. My impression was that I wasnt as impressed with most of the systems as I thought I would be. There were a few standouts. I found myself really loving rooms that had SET amps. I was really impressed with the Harbeth speakers and I had never even heard of Harbeth.

Here is a question that probably ought to have its own thread. Five people go into a room to listen to a system. After listening to the same music they all comment. One says that the amp is superb so good in fact that he might consider one but he doesnt really like the speakers. One person loves the speakers, but says that they would sound superb with tubes. One person says that the turntable is excellent. Another is impressed with the cables.

I dont get it. How can one isolate which component is the reason for the good sound. I really dont see how one can separate the component individually. Someone explain this to me, please. Thanks for your comments
Mapman....thanks for your response. I have thought about an in home audition of another amp. Nuforce is one that comes to mind. What other companies out there offer in home auditions? I don't have a pre-amp. I would really like to try tubes. Robert Lee is always recommending various tube amps for the Adagios, but it always seems like the "flavor of the month" when I have spoken with him. In all fairness He might not be able to understand my Southern accent. He is a very nice guy even though I sometimes have a hard time following what he says.

Speaker placement. I have tried to drastically change the speaker placement. Like most situations I have limitations. We live in this room so I can only place the speakers so far from the front wall. I have tried pulling them way out, but I didnt seem to get a huge boost from that. I tried the "Golden rule" method to place them, but that put them so far out as to make the room unusable. I assume that some speakers are more difficult and more finicky with placement. The front of my speakers about 36 inches from the front wall. They are 92" apart center to center and 42 and 52 inches from the side wall respectively(measured to the center of the speaker). I don't always listen from tha sweet spot. I have to move a chair to the sweet spot if that's my intent. thanks for the response and suggestions.
The dealer in question is 1600 mi from where I am now, but I think there is one closer. I want to work on my set up, electrical hookup, and tweaks before i give up on these speakers. thanks
Well,I thought I should give you an update on my progress. I had a MAJOR upgrade by tube rolling. I replaced the Electro-Harmonix in my Pathos with 2 Voskhod rocket logo 6h23 cryo'ed tubes. The difference was stunning. I dont know if my EH tubes were weak or something but the improvement was nothing short of astonishing. I had no idea that tubes could make this much difference.
I purchased a couple of Wireworld power cords that were recommended by another Pathos owner. The two different chords definitely sound different and I'm letting them break in before I fiddle further.
My speakers sound very good after these changes.
Knownothing....You can read my discussion on Harbeths in the adagio vs Harbeth thread.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1274216801&openmine&zzCatfishbob&4&5#Catfishbob

Suffice it to say that I've heard the P3SR's and the SLH-5's and loved both of them with the Slh-5's being the ones I was most interested in. I wish I could have an in home demo. If I could I might buy them on the spot but since I can't do that I would like to work with what I have to see if I can get more out of my system. If the SHL-5's liked my amp then changing speakers would be the most cost effective way to go. I havent heard the compact 7's.
knownothing....I believe that each individual's hearing can be very different. When you consider the mechanics of the ear and wiring in the brain how could 2 people be be hearing the same thing? I had never really thought of this before I had nerve damage to the nerves in the brain that control hearing in the left ear. Now,I don't like certain restaurants because of their acoustics. The din of noise in some places makes it very uncomfortable for me. If you have been around people with hearing aids you know what I'm talking about. They experience the same sensation. I can still tell the difference in the sound of a system just like anyone else. I have a keen sense of pitch and timing. If a turntable's speed is just a little off it drives me crazy. I am probably overly sensitive to room acoustics. I am assuming that the different speakers might have an affect on this.

The first thing I have done to address this is to order Jim Smiths book "Get Better Sound". I am hoping that this book will help me make some tough decisions about systems set ups and the limitations I might have regarding WAF as I don't have the option of a dedicated listening room. I have too much furniture that really has to stay. There is no point in buying more expensive equipment if i can't set it up properly. It is like the analogy of buying a Ferrari and only being able to drive it to the grocery store. I might however find that different equipment might sound better given my spacial limitations.

Can you enlighten me on why you would suggest the Compact 7s over other Harbeths specifically the SHL-5s?