2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 23 responses by brhatten

brhatten
34 posts
 
I’ve been following this thread for some time.... great work!

Since you asked about Wilson, here’s my system. Wilson MAXX 2 (Sophias in the back for surround), VTL TL 6.5 pre-amp, VTL s-400 amp, Schiit Yggy DAC, Rogue phono pre-amp, with VPI turntable. All transparent audio cabling.

I find the system very revealing and do not consider it bright. It has wonderful dynamics on Pop/rap music, can flesh out complex orchestral passages beautifully, and has shows rich dense tone colors on Jazz. 

Im very exciting that you are going to be trying out a pair of Wilson speakers. I’m very interested in your findings.

Once again, great thread. Keep up the great work!
brhatten
34 posts
 
@whitecamaross Are you setting up the Wilsons yourself or having a dealer do it with you?
brhatten
34 posts
 
@whitecamaross  I am not so sure that they are more the most difficult of all speakers to set up. However, just like most speakers they will shine the best when placed in good position. I would definitely recommend to review the manual which discusses the “zone of neutrality”  to help you get the best out of the placement of the speakers. I did have a dealer set up my previous set of Wilson’s and the process was educational. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
@whitecamaross Once you get really familiar with the new Wilsons, I look forward to a more detailed comparison with your other speakers (particularly versus the electrostat)

Thanks for your thoughts. 


brhatten
34 posts
 
So you’ve had the Sashas for one week and already thinking of upgrading up the Wilson line. Guess that means you’re so impressed that you want even more or do you find something lacking?
brhatten
34 posts
 
Wilson speakers are frequently paired with Transparent Audio cables, especially at trade shows. I’ve used them for many years... Although, I’m not the type to frequently trade out cable to squeeze out some minor differences. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
I’ve noticed a significant change in the way you are describing your system recently. When you started the thread you explained that you did not want to consider tubes because your system needed to integrate with a home theater. 

 However, since having the Ref10 in your system you started describing favorable sonics as “tube like”. Ok, so I think it’s time for you to start considering some tube amps. You would be perfect to give us an unbiased comparison of class A, class AB, class D and tubes. 

Your journey has been fun to watch...
brhatten
34 posts
 
Wow... That’s so sad for the Wilson family. He was a great American entrepreneur, audio engineer, and music enthusiast. I’ve loved their products for many years. Sorry to hear that. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
With this kind of set up, room treatments are the best bang for the buck to improve the sound. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
So glad you finally made your way into high powered tube amps. Too bad the Shashas are gone. Wilsons sound great with them. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
Sounds like my Maxx 2s. Over 400 lbs. shipped on casters and my wife and I put them together and spiked them. It was a bit tenuous at times. Thankfully I had the Wilson jack to help.  Not sure I could convince her to help out with something like that again. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
One of the benefits of using the ultraRendu us that you can move the Roon Core to a desktop in another room thus removing any noise from the laptop (physical fan/hard drive noise)
brhatten
34 posts
 
@whitecamaross You’ve given a great overall  summary of your most recent speakers earlier. 

Would you mind specifically comparing the Wilson Sasha’s to the Soora 3s. It seems as if they might be in yet same league, but your experience is valuable to tease out the nuances btwn the two. Is there an overall winner of those two or is it a matter of taste? 


brhatten
34 posts
 
I agree with the others, keeping having fun at your own pace and discretion. BTW, thanks for your response to my previous question.  
brhatten
34 posts
 
I agree, viber6 gives a great perspective (and significant experience based on the thread) on this equipment. BTW, I sent a DM you way, not sure if you saw it. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
2 months ago, just the mention of tube amps on this thread was heresy. Now we have all this talk about tube rolling. Hmmm, what will the next 2 months bring?
brhatten
34 posts
 
I have extensive experience with VTL amps and pre-amps. My current set up uses the 6.5 TL pre-amp and the S-400 which is a 400 watt/channel stereo tube amp. I’ve also owned the ST-85 and ST-150 amps and 5.5 TL pre-amp, over the years. 

To my ears, these amps/pre-amps are very neutral (except the ST-85 is more lush and has more of a “tubey sound” - but led me fall in love with tubes).

The S-400 is auto-biasing which I like very much. I can’t compare them to the Mac tubes, but I can compare them to Mac SS. I actually went from my ST-150 to a Mac SS amp and found that music was so much less involving. I stopped listening to music as much. Now that I’m back with the VTL components, I’m back to enjoying and being involved with home music again. The soundstage is huge, three dimensional, and the instrument lines are fleshed out perfectly. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
@techno_dude  I don’t think your fully understanding what I mean by a neutral sound to the VTL tube amplifiers (especially with the S-400). I am not saying that they are more SS in their presentations. Each different kind of amplification technique has its own pros/cons (A, A/B, D, tubes). 

When i I say that the amp is “neutral”, I am describing that they don’t suffer from common problems typically associated with tubes, such as bloat in the bass, dark/syrupy colorations, rolled of highs or lack of quick transients. Many people will say that this then makes them sound more like SS, because those are not typical problems associated with that type of amplication. But my feeling is that they are neutral because they do not suffer from these problems.

The quality that I think tubes can replicate the best is how individual notes and chords can layer on top of each with such natural presence and decay that it portrays the beauty and intent of the music.

I do not have nearly the breadth of experience with the number of brands of amps that WC has, but I suspect that this quality is what made him fall in love with the MAC. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
I just ordered my first set of wireworld cables (interconnects) for my secondary system. Hope there as good as you’ve experienced. 
brhatten
34 posts
 
Whitecamacross,

Youve stated a couple times that the bass of the Neoliths are (way) better than the Wilsons and the Magico. Don’t you think that’s a product of the specific models of each of these speakers that you’ve owned. I would think that the Neolith with a 15” and a 13” woofer has a better chance of beating out a Wilson with two 8” woofers such as the Sasha’s.

I currently own the Maxx 2’s, comprised of a 12” and 10” (which doesn’t even approach what you’ve got in the Neolith) and I feel like the bass is a very strong point on the speaker.

If you every have the opportunity to move up the Wilson line, perhaps the bass response would fall more in line with what your hearing now. Although, I’m not sure the Alexia will get you there (disclaimer: I have not heard the Alexia). After all, there’s no replacement for displacement.
brhatten
34 posts
 
WC, Thanks for sharing more about yourself. I like limes too, but mostly with Vodka.   :)
brhatten
34 posts
 
Finally caught up on reading the thread over the last couple months... what a great recent journey with the Personas. WC, your description between the Neoliths and them was fantastic. That’s the kind of review that I’d love to read in Absolute Sound... too bad they can’t compare products the way you can.
brhatten
34 posts
 
Yeah, I’ve had mixed experiences here (on Audiogon) with dealers as well. It’s hasn’t been all perfect. There are definitely some that I wouldn’t do business with again. But.. that’s another story.
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