2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by mrdecibel

mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Vittora is the correct spelling.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
wc, too many people, and I would say you as well, put too much emphasis on sound staging, imaging, spatiality, etc. We do not know what this information is on most recordings. I am not suggesting these do not have importance in a playback system, as they do, but there are so many other musical characteristics that are . I cannot believe viber and I agree on this, as we seem to disagree more than we agree. I am also glad you made me feel wanted here, on your thread, again. I am honored, really. Yes, we all have our own desires for our dream systems, nothing right or wrong. Just important to find what " you " want and like, and find it. One day, we will connect, I come to you, you come to me thing. But, if you get the Vittora and Sub system, I will be coming to you ! lol. Greg Roberts is a great, passionate guy. I know him from his Klipsch modifications he did for a while during his beginnings. Enjoy ! big man. MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
philharmonicpete, glad to have you here. I am so glad you have stated " IMHO ". This is all " our opinions ". You obviously never heard the Volti Vittora and sub bass system. It is ok you like what you like. As another poster mentioned on another thread, this audio world would be very boring if there were only 1 set of speakers for the wide variety of listeners. Have you heard the AG trio / XD system, in a proper sized room, for you to make that comment. I so disagree with you, and I am not surprised you are in the camp that ELs are IT, just as viber. And just so you know, I never said Lascalas, or horns in general, reproduce live, as live does. What I can tell you is this. I have taken a very clean mic and guitar mixer, and have used my Lascalas to playback my singing, and my buddies guitar playing, and it was awesome. Play loud, yes they do. But if you think that is what horns do best, you are wrong. It is actually the accurate portrayal of soft vs. loud, with an ease and flow, which cannot be duplicated by ELSs, or anything else for that matter ( IMHO ). How far did you " take " your Lascalas when you say you owned them ? This is a great discussion. One of my earlier points, was that when we stop looking for better ( listening in this case ), and can stay seated, day after day, listening to our favorite music, and not looking at the equipment ads on here or elsewhere, is a great place to be. This also shows our individuality, of how each of us hears, what are our priorities are, and so on. I am yet to hear a system that sounds identical to real, live, unamplified music. So, with all that said, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
wc, the issue is " what do each of us think it should be ". No right or wrong. We all seem to be defending " our perspectives " on the matter. I am correct however, and everyone else is wrong, LOL, LOL, LOL. As I stated, there are many characteristics in music, and breaking it down even further, some of us like vocals, some of us like guitar, some, as viber, grew up loving violin, etc. Once it is down on record, cd, broadcast, whatever, we need to reassemble it the best way, within our financial means, for our own interpretation. That is why my statement ( I think I will apply for a patent ), is so true. We just need to find what we like, that is all. Not complex in theory, but anyone reading your thread, has been through many speakers, amplifiers, dacs, cables, cartridges, etc., to find what they feel is right, for them. It is all good. philharmonicpete, I appreciate it. 50 years is a long time to be " into it ", so, I have discovered what is best, for me. And it was over 50 years ago that I was introduced to Khorns, and through time, with so much exposure to so many other things, I still like the Klipsch Heritage models, and some other horns. This is me. I really do believe the Vittora system, " does it all " ( for me ). Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber, the Belle was 18 inches deep, 30 inches wide . Lascala is 24 inches deep, 24 inches wide. Within a few inches differences in height, as the Belle was taller. As you said, both large, but the Belle seemed more compact, likely because it stuck out into the room less, by about six inches ( that’s what she said, lol ). I suspect you liked the Belle, because they were 1/2 of a foot farther from you, as well as the Belle being slightly taller ( and likely being driven by early ss receivers, no doubt ). The Belle was the " pretty girl ", having nicer exposed cabinets, and the Lascala were utilitarian, and designed to be a bit more compact. My experiences listening to the AGs ( I have heard them all, but not the trio with the addition of the xd ) require a larger room, as a bit more distance is required between them and the listener. At the right distance, I do hear a point source. Why I stated the Lascala can be listened to more nearfield. And for both of us to say to others, that spatial characteristics are not as important as other characteristics ( we do agree on this point ), makes us both unique amongst listeners, as any true audiophile tries to create this " staging ". I certainly do, but not at the expense of other things. I want to say, also, my early experiences with Klipsch, was with tube amps driving them, and it was my experience with early ss, which included Japanese receivers, did I join the Klipsch modifications band wagon, as solid state at the time, exposed " nasties " that were present in the original designs. All horns back then had nasties, not just Klipsch. Anyway, this is a fun and lifelong journey for all of us, and it will be interesting to hear all about wc’s takeaways from the show. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber, too much detail ( pun intended ) about all of the modifications I do. Liked the Lascala better, because the mid horn has a longer throat ( Khorn and Lascala use the same mid horn, Belle, a shorter horn ). One of the many reasons production of the Belle came to a halt. WC.....I just spent time looking over the exhibitor list for the Axpona show. A large turn out, with many interesting and promising speakers and designers. There are even some non horn speakers that caught my eye, as I think you will be quite busy. Saturday evening a live concert by Shelby Lynn, and so much more. I used to love being at shows, both as an exhibitor, and as a patron. As far as JTR speakers, I do not think they will be your cup of tea, partly because your room will not allow proper distance between you and them, and they are not a full range horn ( they are a hybrid ), as the Vittora. Just my opinion. Always exciting. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Listen, there is live, unamplified music. That's it. Done. What we try to achieve with our systems is to create a facsimile, a copy, of the real thing. It cannot be done. But on a measurement scale of imitating the real thing, there are systems that come closer than others. And this is still up to debate as to which systems come closer, as we all might put greater emphasis on one or two characteristics over others. I thought we all agreed on this ? And I can tell you I have been to several concert halls and like both of you, enjoy being up close to the performers. My feelings are this : without detail and clarity, you cannot get a realistic portrayal of the " playing " of the instruments or rendering of the voices, let alone the tone structure, attack and decay, and the ambience around them. I believe once you can change a fuse in a piece of equipment and hear things change ( generally for the better ), you might say your system has plenty of clarity and detail. So although I do not put sound staging and imaging high on my list of preferred listening characteristics, it is pretty amazing when the entire front of the room " disappears ", and I can hear placement of the musicians, and I can get a feeling of the acoustic space they are performing in. If anyone has spent any time in a studio, and see what these engineering and mastering guys do, well, it is all a " simulation " of a real performance. And by the way, this detail and clarity starts at our sources, and if lost at the beginning, no amplifier, and no speaker, will be able to get it back. This is why most professional reviewers use " audiophile " recordings when talking about the equipment they are reviewing. What is my point in all of this ? I just felt like rambling. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber, it is nice to agree with you, my friend.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Although I agree with wc, as he would like speakers to be as neutral as can be, it is the hardest to accomplish, simply because they rely on the room in which they will be in, and they rely on everything else  ( the system ) before them. And not to be repetitive, but are the recordings we listen to, neutral ? As everyone knows by now, I love horns, and there are many reasons. But one reason I feel I do, and maybe have not emphasized it enough, as it is a given, is that the horns direct the sound at my listening chair, better than other designs, which is, ime, easier on the speaker / room interaction. Granted, room size and listener distance is very critical ( in all situations ), but I do not want to hear any reflections, or absorptions of my room, and horns do this best. At least, not until the sounds hit my ear, first. I know I am speaking of acoustics and sound delivery here, but this is what we are dealing with. Bose 901, Ohms, MBL, and so many others ( yes, panels as well ), spread the sound around, but as nice as some of these systems sound, they obscure the " details " and the " clarity " that are in my recordings, because of the use of the room. This is why speakers such as these are not used in studios. And I want to, again, point out, I have owned horns since I was in my early teens, and when so much else has come and gone, this is still what my ears like, and are accustomed to. I make a good argument for horns, and I always will, but I know of many other characteristics that are not to everybody's liking. Again, a rant, if you will. The most important point in all of this : As long as we, as " individual listeners ", can find the sound of reproduced music, pleasing and with great enjoyment, in our listening rooms, than, this is all that matters, and debating is meaningless. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Now that is a discussion..... Euphonic components.....Not here, not now…..And as far as listening levels go, I generally set the desired volume levels based on lower parts of the music ( a great example " low " vs "high " ) is Roger Waters " Amused to Death ". Used in demonstrations for this aspect, as well as sound staging and imaging, although I would be curious to know if any exhibitor will be using this at the upcoming AXPONA show, as it has been excessively used at many prior shows. Bye for now, off to Karaoke at the clubhouse.....Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I hope to cover a few things here. " Give more of the spaciousness and soundstage of a live show " ? I can listen to one of my favorite bands, and one of my favorite live recorded concerts ( and I was there one of those nights ), The Allman Bros., Live at the Fillmore East, and I could not imagine it getting any better than my current system ( although I have yet to hear this better anywhere, I would love to )…. Palladium series. RF7 design on steroids. Not a Khorn nor a Lascala, and was not worth the asking price. The cabinetry was beautiful, and expensive. They were definitely a Klipsch, but not a Heritage. Could easily understand why some people took a liking to them, and still do.... Horns, the metal Altecs, JBLs, Klipsch, and many more, had " ringing " and vibrational issues, and the later polymer horns had / have " resonance " and vibrational issues. Was not hard to hear, specifically with most early solid state amplification. What to do....dampen the horn. Back in the day, I used mortite, and lots of it. I know others used clay. After the application of the mortite, I would wrap the horns in a potato sack material, as mortite was messy. Now, Dynamat, and other type materials, and several roofing repair tapes, such as Peel and Seal, or USeal, can be used. Popular in automobile sound systems, and the quieting of vehicles.... The " cupping " effect people reacted to, was simply, hearing a horn too close up. With tubes, not so much. With early solid state, they would run out of the room. A horn that has been completely ridden of these " nasties ", as I call them, are generally a joy to listen to, but of course, within a fully designed speaker. Using wood as the horn ( and they are very common ), could be excellent, if it does not have any of these nasties. The shape of the horn, the length and diameter of the throat, the outer flare, are all up to the designer. Then you have the driver / magnet / voice coil, and the combination of the two. I am nowhere a designer, and I am leaving out and simplifying the entire horn thing, but, horns have their place. In stadiums, in malls, in theaters, and yes, in automobiles. But, they also have found their place in the home, even before PWK. Enjoy MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
And yes, wc, visit the Klipsch room.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Mr_bill, do you mean have I heard them ? Have not owned them, but a friend of mine, on my recommendation, replaced his B&W 802, series 3s, with a pair of Palladium P38s, I found used. Went with him to pick them up. I really loved the sound over his 802s, ( no comparison, imo ) but he grew tired of them after a few months and sold them. I had the opportunity to purchase them prior to him, and could have purchased his pair, but have always preferred my LaScala. He made a profit on the sale, and gave me 1/2. His system was a Sunfire Theater Grand Four and Sunfire Cinema Grand 405 wpc amp. I heard the 37s on several occasions in 3 different systems ( one was in my system in a previous home ). I never heard the P39s. As I said, they are, without a question, a Klipsch, and excellent, but " I prefer " the mids, and the bass loaded horns on the Lascala…. viber, as far as overdamping, I went, and go, a bit crazy ( extreme ), because the horn should not have a sound of it’s own. I dampen the cabinets as well, and further isolate the crossovers: just some of the things. I agree with you on turntables and tonearms, as you are " creating the marriage " for the stylus / record. I like the AGs horns, as when I hear them at the proper listening distance, I do not notice an issue, but up too close, I do, and yes, they are not a point source when too close. I have heard the Vittora, twice, at shows, and do not hear the softening you speak of, but feel they are very " smooth ", if you feel that is the same thing. I personally do not feel they are the same. I have heard about horns being made out of many different materials, such as granite, marble, corian, and yes, concrete. As long as the concrete surface on the inside of the horn was polished smooth, I would imagine it can work. Until next time. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I think when dealing with panels, omnis and other designs that spread sound throughout the room ( as opposed to direct radiating designs ), these all sound best in 1 particularly sized room. A larger panel = a larger room. Ohm sells speakers based on the size of the room, and other specifics to the purchaser. Ime, too many panels and omnis, used in rooms that are just too small, suffer the most, by introducing the room reflections to early to the listener. Just by a few photos, I truly believe the Neos would be worlds better in a larger room, further away from side walls, a greater distance between each other, and a greater listening distance between them and wc.   
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, I think it is great that your wife will be joining you. The shows I have worked, and the shows I attended, my ex wife never showed interest. 
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
riaa, I missed you......LMAO. Signed photos of wc, more likely. Always, and enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber, I would think wc has the perfect marriage. She seems to like his music, taking part in some of his comparisons. My divorce had very little to do with my audio / music thing, as I had my own dedicated listening room throughout all of our 34 years together, and as long as our bills were paid, she never cared if I brought in another piece of gear, and that was quite often. She was / is a piano player, but never was interested in my gear or my music. WC, someone I know, thinks a lot about the Alta Audio " Statement " speakers, if they are on display. Mike Levy is the main guy behind that company, and although he probably does not remember me, we knew each other with his 1st foray into loudspeaker design. His next model down the line seems interesting as well. These are not horns, but do use ribbons in the high frequencies. I am still, and always will be, a horny guy !. Enjoy the show, MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Klipsch, Volti, Avantgarde...….I'm still horny...…..
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
It will be interesting to hear what the best " per dollar " systems will be. I'm still horny. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Two of my buddies who went to AXPONA, commented to me that although some rooms were " nice ", the Ocean Way speakers and the $60 K Avantgarde speakers created the most lifelike portrayal of real, live music, at the show. I am not surprised, and one of them does not own horns. Once again, to each his own. WC, glad you had a nice time, and my takeaway is the ML 13a was the best to your ears, for the money, based on my readings.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Again, to each his own.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, the article you referenced above did give kudos to the ML system, but further down, he was stating he was giving serious consideration for purchase, the best system he heard at the show, the Avantgarde, at 60 K. Horns, baby, horns, every time ! LOL
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I doubt very much that the GT room was hitting levels at or above 110 db. I do not doubt the GT speakers can play at 110 db, but my experience at shows, both as an exhibitor and as a visitor, is that the hotel management did not allow volume levels to reach that high by the exhibitors in their respective rooms. Plus, the audiophiles I have known throughout my career, tells me that many people would not stay in a room when music was playing at that level. And, with those tube amps ( the 2nd one ) ? I believe faxer is exaggerating, even if wc comes on here and says the system " did " in fact play at that high a level. I would expect a measurement using an spl meter to have been taken, and documented, for this to be true. Not to mention, an exhibitor that will play a system at this level would be putting many people in harms way for hearing damage, because 1 minute of exposure to 110 db can do damage, especially at close range. BS
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, my only question is this. Based on your experiences at the show, are you staying with the Neos, for now ?.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber, resonance and vibrational issues are definitely some of the greatest weaknesses of stock Klipsch Heritage speakers, and yes, imo, even the newest generations. Two of my buddies who were at AXPONA, stopped by the Volti room, and left, feeling my system was far superior to what they heard. This is the unfortunate case of setting up high end systems, in hotel rooms, in a very little amount of time. They were both " excited " by the Avantgarde 60 K horns. Are the Volti Vittora and sub package, which are 7 times the cost of what I have into my Lascalas ( my labor not calculated into the equation ), 7 times better ? No way, but imo, they are better, and the diminishing returns thing appears here, as so much else in audio system building. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Faxer, you need to read my post again. I indicated that I did not doubt the speakers can play at levels at or above 110 db, just not happening at a show, " during " show hours. Attendee, after show hours, taking measurements with a real spl meter ? And, you were not able to see the measurement, but assumed it was 110 db. Sounds suspicious. Big difference between 100 db and 110 db. Are you sure about that 110 db level ? The math does not add up, given the amp used. Lie, exaggeration, whatever ? At least you are forthright, finally, that you are the GT dealer, unlike earlier in your time here on the ’Gon. WC, I am sorry, but I am not a fan of faxer, as I know he treated you well. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
viber +1. 110 db can cause permanent hearing damage after 1 minute of exposure. Rock concerts, with the many speakers and mega watt amplifiers around, and specifically indoor, are the worst. Many months ago,your buddy faxer came on here ( other threads, too ), pretending to be a purchasing customer of the GT speakers, before we found out he was a dealer. Of course, he praised them, like no other. If he announced, like a man, he was the dealer for them, I would not have a problem with him, but I will never trust a guy like that. Sorry......again, I am moving on...…..as far as my hearing, I am very careful with listening levels, but as my screen name implies, I do like some decibels on occasion. Traveling the NYC subways for many years, wearing ear protection on the platforms. The squealing of the trains coming to a stop, were horrible. I understand other railways, such as in Japan, are very quiet. The trams at Disney are quiet. Always, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
As always, you big tease.....lol
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Faxer = concert level volumes. WC = not at low volume. I know what a system playing at 110 db sounds like, using professional measurements, and understand speaker efficiency, sensitivity, impedance, and wpc from amplification, and I question the validity of the claim. I will move on from this subject.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, Constellation ?
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Those red Neos, with that carpet, the doors on the left, and the Parasound gear, are not WC’s. Likely from the show.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
RIAA…..LMAO
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, It is interesting how you speak of longer decays, but never " attack ". Are the decays you speak of, of the " spatial " qualities of the music, or the " rhythmic " qualities of the musicians ? I hope I am not sounding like, well, you know who......
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I am surprised that some people who regularly read your thread are clueless to so many things. Just in the last several posts, in fact ( greyhound, bigdesign ). I am assuming the drinking started early.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Does anybody read ? WC very recently indicated he has no intention, at this time, to sell the Neos. However, in your favor, keithr, with wc, we never know, lol.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
That quasi bi - amping, today, is referred to as bi - wiring, as described above. WC, Everything is different. No ARC preamp in the system, or, the 535s are not in the same league as the Block Audios. As it is the current system is just not as inviting / engaging as before. The Lampi might improve some, but...……..just imo.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
tjassoc, I am sure there was a miscommunication. I have owned some AR tube amps ( had the Classic 30, during a time I owned Khorns ). I connected the dog houses, and top horns, separately, using 2 sets of speaker cables, per channel. No one ( and I was in the industry ) ever used the term quasi bi amping with any of these AR amplifiers, including Audio Research. Today, this is called bi- wiring. I do not remember this had a specific name, at that time. That’s all. Reminds me of the Voltage source / Current source outputs on some Carver amplifiers. If I am still missing something, so be it. I would love to read about quasi bi-amping, whatever that is. Moving on, I am good with getting back to WC and his thread. Always, and, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Right here in Tampa....An original pair of AG Trio, with a pair of 225 subs. Auction is at 15 K with 4 days left. Man o man. If I felt my room was large enough, as I could not seat myself further back from them, I would cash out an IRA for them. Yes, an upgrade from my fabulous Lascalas. Just wanted to vent. Thank you all, for listening.....
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
greyhound, all good my friend. We are all bad sometimes ( actually, I am bad with many other things, audio, not so much. It is part of my sickness, lol ). WC, are you saying that if those Utopia III were close by, and they accepted paypal, you would consider them ? Enjoy ! MrD. 
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I really think at the level of WCs gear, and, what he is listening for, Class D is still not it. Too dry and analytical ( my own interpretation of Class D ). Exciting about the Constellation, as WC really found synergy between them and ML. Waiting for reports, at warmup, during warmup, and...………………..Enjoy ! WC, and everyone. 
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
You have a pair of both the Centaur and the Taurus amps ?
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, my suggestion would be to use the 535s in mono, and let them burn in for a few hundred hours, as to give then the better chance that Guido feels they deserve. Unless, you know already. However, your last few statements ( descriptive words ) are just what I predicted, mainly because you have been listening to the Blocks for so long. I am sure the 535s are wonderful at the price, but...……..not for everyone. WC, you, and your ears, have definitely been spoiled. Enjoy ! 
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Guido, I am sure the JR 535s are excellent through your Vienna Acoustics, and I did not mean to stir you up, nor to put any thoughts into WCs head. WC has been focused throughout this journey, and have made decisions, with very little outside influence. My limited time with 1/2 dozen Class D amps ( listened through my modified and updated Klipsch Lascalas, in my home ), had me wanting more. I made the statement, as well, considering wc has had a pair of Blocks there, for a rather long time ( probably longer than any others during his journey ), and I suspect they are very special. I do believe in product break in, but 200 hours would be enough time for me to determine if I like something or not. I have suggested horns to wc a few times, and he continues with his MLs, so I do not think I will influence him, negatively, in any way. I have owned a few Rowland products in my time ( a long time ago ), but, they weren’t for me. But they were great, well made, well engineered products. I appreciate your response, and hope we can all be friends. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Keep in mind, wc, when using the Blocks, there were other items that were different in your audio chain, so some of what you are now hearing, are not only the Blocks.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, sorry, just a side bar. Guido, if you would like to discuss dynamics, infinite details, and all the other attributes in music you listen for, I will be happy to oblige, as we both are looking for the same things in our systems. With completely different systems and set ups, I, too, feel I have accomplished every characteristic you mentioned, and I do know the decibel levels I reach. You can PM me anytime. Good day my friend, and never hard feelings. Life is good ! Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
Let us keep in mind, many of us compare our systems to live, unamplified music. Once the recordings are made, with the mics, mixing consoles, compressors, equalizers ( and this is just some of the equipment ), and now we add the producers, the artists, the engineers, and all of the other people involved, you are far from live. Once we all listen at home, in our systems, we are trying to create " our nirvana ", meaning, what we think it should be. We are all " different ", in what we want and think it should be ( a point I tried to make several times to V man ). This is why I stick around here and look forward to WCs next move, and appreciate his findings. It is wc's  passion, financial and physical ( lol ) ability, and pursuance, to find his listening " bling ", that keeps me coming back, day after day. Enjoy ! MrD. Guido, I sent you an email, to start our " relationship ", lol.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
WC, did you not have a pair of 535s ?....According to the data, and the benefits of the " constellation connection ", the 1st gain stage ( gain module ) in the power amplifiers are bypassed from the signal, which, although is lowering gain, and requiring the volume on the preamp to be turned up higher, creates a dramatic increase in resolution. Constellations " Dream Team ", the group of engineers who designed all of it, supposedly worked very long and hard to get this hook up scheme perfected. Some excellent and well know engineers are part of this dream team, including the unfortunately passed James Bongiorno, who did much of the power supply designs with Constellation. I have been doing my readings, and my homework. Excellent company and equipment, for sure. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
BTW, I do love the 3 songs you use for system evaluation, but admittedly, they are highly processed ( so much of recorded music is, unfortunately ). Listen to Tin Pan Alley ( the studio version ), and get back to us about it. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
I am so glad you put the Lampi in your system. You are a strange dude, wc. Just connect the best stuff together, and enjoy !.
mrdecibel
2,898 posts
 
zprr, although you asked wc the question, I thought I would give you a recommendation of mine. One of my go to tracks is SRV’s " Tin Pan Alley ". I am not suggesting it is his best song, because frankly, he is a genius in his playing, and I love everything by him. But, TPA, is a " simple to follow ", well recorded piece, that is wonderful for evaluating " every aspect " of a system, and / or a new addition. Tone, dynamics, spatial cues, timing, note and pitch sustainability, speed, coherence, everything ! A reason it is still used today by many ( to the point, actually, some listeners are tired of it at shows, and showrooms ). It is fabulous for " tuning " components ( footers, weights, etc. ), anyone, not just the higher echelon audiophiles and music listeners, can use it as a reference. Much more enjoyable than test tones ( which these test cds are also good for that ). So many systems fail, ime, with the note and pitch sustainability area. And this, to me, is necessary for proper musical reproduction of a system ( music in general ). Enjoy ! MrD.
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