MC suggestions


I have long been a Grado fan.  Currently running a Statement Reference v2.  I love it, but.  I auditioned the Ortofon Quintet Black and the Dyna 17d3 and the Benz Glider and while each were excellent in their way, the overall feeling, despite being faster and transparent left me wanting, I was happy enough with my Grado. Id like to take another crack at this now. What I am looking for at this point and I hope you guys can make some suggestions, is a cleaner, and more live sound. This combined with a nice sense of space and width to the soundstage.  Is this asking a lot in my price range which is 2.5k(ish)?  I am of the opinion after spending sometime trying to figure this out, that an el34 based tube amp combined with the Grado cart are just too similar in voicing(warm).  I had hope that running a ss phono stage combined with the low output statement would be just the synergy.  It definitely moved the needle in the right direction and I could live happily if I didn't think I could push it a little farther in the detail direction without losing what I love about the Grado sound.  That is primarily it is not brittle, its natural sounding, nice soundstage all around.  Perhaps if I had solid state amplification it would be a synergistic match made in heaven.  Some carts I have been thinking about are VAS, Miyajima, Dyna(I did really like the 10x5 I listened to at one point).  Not to rule out Lyra but would be worried about the thinness I've read about from some users.  Grado fans seem a little few and far between and I wonder if there are previous fans who have moved on.  Maybe I just need to have a couple carts around and their is no one right cart. I have hesitated pursuing a cart change because my system has been tuned to Grado's sound but if I can get close with another company making MC's that wouldn't call for recalibrating my rig that much would be great.  Thanks for reading and sorry to be so long winded.
128x128fourwnds

Showing 9 responses by fourwnds

@tomic601 hey!, whaddya know, maybe there is more Grado fans than I thought! Grado’s there sure is something about them for that full bodied natural presentation(midrange?). Seems like you got some nice set-ups going.
2-votes Lyra. with Nagaoka coming in with a photo finish needed and a dark horse Shelter breathing down everybody's neck : )

@mulveling right on!, I appreciate your recommendation, Shelter was not something I was remotely considering. Not for any reason, just under my radar. I’ll have to do my due diligence here and check em out. Lots to think about.

Thanks again everybody for your responses.

@johnss I started to think about what you said. I think I was thinking if I was buying new, but on the used market, if I could get into one of those Herron’s for that price that I’ve read sooo much about. That would be an alternative I hadn’t considered. By all accounts they are quite something.
Hey all, 

johnss, my stage is I think a nice one, its the LKV-2sb.  Dual mono, outboard power supply, decent amount of gain for a lo-out cart. Usual options for loading and gain.  I'm not sure about changing that out, it'd be a pricier proposition.

Chakster, thanks, I thought my arm at 15.5 grams would be alright for low compliance Miyajima but perhaps not.  I'll look into the Ortofon you mentioned. Do think there would any synergy issues w/my arm. 12" Ace-Space with any of the other carts mentioned.  If so how heavy an arm would be appropriate?  Not that Id go that far but I'm more curious what you think.  There is used w/200 hours,  Miyajima Madake for sale(2500) a short drive from me. Buying a used cart though has never been something I've felt comfortable with.  At least not at that price point. But those reviews are pretty stellar.

Steve, thanks for chiming in on your Lyra experiences.  Being a Grado cart user yourself it's nice to hear your feedback and suggestion of the Nagaoka's.  I'll be sure to check out the mp200 you mention! Would you describe the Lyra having standard width in terms of a soundstage?

Spatial King, another Grado fan! Thanks for chiming in!
@johnss I will look into this. I wonder if the designer would agree with you and not mind humoring me. Bill has been such a cool guy to go through this process with.  This could be a nice tweak to grab that "micro detail" that I know is there. I'm listening to Hawkins/Jackson Bean Bags and damn it's almost perfect I'd say.  I know its not part of my original post for MC suggestions but has anyone listened to The Statement v2.  It would be just under my 2.5k target range, with their trade in policy it would be 2350.  Tonepub had some very nice things to say.  From what I understand Grado has apparently invested in a new winding machine.
@edgewear 

I worked with Bill at LKV to get the gain at 47k up to wear it needed to be to support a 1mv output from my Statement Reference v.2 

Didn't mean to imply it was dark and lifeless necessarily, it certainly is not that.  But, I want more ya know.  Thank you for your suggestion of the Phasemation, they are new to me!

@audiorusty. That is really nice gear you have and I'm not surprised that Grado wasn't recommended.  It does seem like MC's are the default.  Maybe for good reason, although given my experience up to this point  I don't get it.  But, I'm willing to try again at a higher price point and maybe that is where I'll find myself coming around.

Thanks again everybody, this is all very helpful and FUN!
I thought I’d post a follow up post if anyone is curious as to what direction I went. Being that the sound I hear in my head is oh-so-close, I reached out to Bill at LKV and he’s really interested in trying out the naked foil resistors. It’ll be some time before the results of this will be known but I’ll be sure to let everyone who cares to know what results from this. We decided to put in 47k and 100k resistors. Thank u everybody who contributed and the mc suggestions are commited to posterity now and I’ll be referring back to them at some point I am sure. Happy Sunday listening. 
I will be receiving my new cart soon. I decided to stop whittling around and go for it. The resistor mod I may still go after down the line. 

It was almost the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, but after talking to my local dealer, I decided to go with the Air Tight pc7.

Should be here in another day or two. 
@mijostyn thank you. I still haven’t received the cart. Lots of air and detail sounds good to me. Should be a good match to my sys. In theory anyway. Channel balance within .5db is really appealing as well as I’m sensitive to channel imbalances. Should be just as my semester is over and a nice reward to myself. 
Well, the cart has been in the system now for a couple a days.  It took its sweet time getting here from Japan.  But definitely worth it.  Given its not insignificant price I was having some serious anxiety about potential buyers remorse.  I really was putting the faith in my dealer to understand my system and where I wanted to go.  I am VERY thrilled to report the Pc7 is a substantial improvement and all I could ask for!  The transparency and immediacy is on par with the London Decca Jubilee, but with a much wider and enveloping soundstage. Lots of air and detail. Most importantly I am connecting with the feeling of the music so much more.  This is happening because of a new recognition of the dynamics I feel did not get completely conveyed prior.  Other myriad subtle but necessary instrumental and production details in the grooves pulling me in as well.  Its not dry or thin even running it at 47k, its both musical and detailed.  It took a little experimentation but I now feel I understand the draw of the MC in audio land that I previously chalked up to hype.  It was super easy to mount.  In fact I haven't even bothered to use my Feikert protractor yet.  I did a rough set up and did a needle drop to see if all was ok and to check to hear about tonality and I haven't stopped listening. I was two records in when it dawned on me I was still at 47k.  I'm not sure what that says about my system(on the warmer side I think) but after more records and listening I feel I'm good right here.  Tracking at 2 grams no distortion and tracks right on through previously congested passages with no collapse of image or delineation of instrumentation.  Bass is my only niggly critique, with a bit of overshoot, but I think its coming along actually.  This seems like it could be just recording dependent right now but I don't know for sure. Or maybe an alignment issue perhaps. Thanks and I hope this helps someone.  My system description is still the same with Anti-Cable 3.1 and ArtAudio IC3se interconnect the only changes I believe in quite awhile.  Oh I did add some Aurios into the rig as well, under turntable platform at moment.  But I think they'll go back under amp eventually.