Loud Snap at High Volume


I like to listen to orchestral music at fairly high volume.  I have Borresen Z2 speakers driven by a D'Agostino Progression Integrated in a fairly small room: 13x16x12.  At the peak of a crescendo, as you get in say the last movement of Mahler's 8th Symphony, the speakers will emit a loud snap, almost like the crack of a whip.  I haven't measured, but I doubt I have the level much over 90db.  I don't hear any distortion or break up before the snap. so it doesn't seem to be clipping.  Which I can't imagine happening with the power of the DAG (200w into 8ohms/400w into 4 ohm) into a relatively benign 89db sensitive speaker that doesn't dip much below 4 ohms.  I have read it could be loose speaker wire connections, and in fact the Shunyata Alpha V2 cable's banana connectors are not super tight at the back of the speakers.  Or could it be the Z2's ribbon tweeter breaking up?  Any insights would be welcome.

128x128stephendunn

Showing 6 responses by stephendunn

Don't know where the ribbons are crossed over.  This is my first experience with ribbon tweeters.  Love the sound of them, but maybe they can't be pushed.  Discouraging.

@erik_squires  Thanks for the suggestion.  I will try that although the snap comes at high peaks not low.  Should have mentioned that.

@erik_squires I tried plugging the ports with dense foam, did not influence the "snap".

@onhwy61 I downloaded Decibel X on my iPhone and the crescendo where the peak appears spiked to 95db.

@mijostyn My program source is Qobuz streamed through an 432 Evo Aeon MkII playing in bit perfect to a Playback Designs MPD 8 Dream DAC.  And, yes, the snap happens in the same place.

So playing around with the Decibel X made me realize a few things.  When I drop the volume so that the peak is 90db or less I do not get the snap.  And at this level it is just as "live" sounding and of course no doubt better for my hearing.  The system will play at a sustained 95db (ear plugs in) with no problem.  It's just when there is a sustained build up to that level or above that brings a snap and in some cases a complete drop out of the speakers before they come back on.  Which means some protection circuitry is kicking in.  Not good and certainly not enjoyable to play at that sustained level.

My conclusion is it's the tweeter making this noise when pushed.  Since it happens equally in both tweeters I doubt it is a faulty tweeter, rather the limit of the design.  The tricky part is that the volume control on the DAG, rather than a number, is where the needles are pointing on the gauge while you have your finger on the up or down button.  Meaning it is difficult to pick an exact volume level as you might with electronics that give you a number.  Since the system is so dynamic, picking the right listening level that gives you room for a peak at 90db or so is tricky.  I think in fact that I have to use the Decibel+ to do this, i.e. set the initial level in the low 80's.  But of course it depends on the recording and it's dynamic range.

Maybe this tweeter snap--if that's where it's coming from--is a blessing in disguise, making me be more careful of the peaks I subject my hearing to.

@8th-note Don't know which Borresen speakers you were listening to but the Z2's are supposed to have the same tweeters as the other models up to their large 05 array.  I do plan on speaking with the dealer.  Be interesting to see if they've ever heard the tweeters react like this. 

@misstl I misspoke at the onset.  It is Shostakovich's 8th (The Stalingrad) not Mahler's 8th.  The 2016 DG recording with Andris Nelsons conducting the Boston Symphony.  It is approximately 2/3 of the way through the final movement, Allegretto. There are a succession of drum rolls followed by crescendoing strings, winds and horns.  It is on the third crescendo that I get the snap.  Be interested to know how your speaker handles it at 95db!

@msstl  Interesting analysis.  Thanks for doing it.  Explains a lot.  Because this movement starts so softly, my tendency was to begin listening at around 80db, which meant--because of the extreme dynamic range--by the time I hit the peaked highs I was pushing 100db, when I would hear the snap.  And, again, this snap comes at the peak of the highs not during any of the drum rolls or beats.

@ozzy62 As I mentioned, it seems that I can play my system at a sustained 95db.  It is just when there is a peak beyond that coming from a sustained and building wall of sound that I get the snap.  Still, you would think the Z2's could handle this.  I posted my experience thinking that other folks with ribbon tweeters had encountered similar issues.  

@musicaddict Thanks for your input.  Yes, the X2's are fabulous in every way except for this limitation, which, as I've said, might be saving my hearing.  I have thought of high passing the Z2s which sounds like it would solve this problem and maybe even get me better bass.  The Z2's go down to 40hz on paper and don't seem to benefit when I add a subwoofer off the speaker terminals.