Looking for a Solidly good inexpensive DAC

Samzx12

I probably won't though... I'm just compulsive... not obsessive... Well, not a lot. Well, OK. BUT just to the point where I become fatigued by it all, or realize I've gone off the deep end and am now lost.

Looking at the above posts, it seems there are far more legitablly good units available with far less trouble in acquiring them... I doubt the Paradisea is head and shoulders above all the others that it is worth the trouble to stake out ebay... and wait.

Waiting an indeterminable span is just not me... unless I have no other choice. In this case, I do have other choices apparently.

Wow … thanks so far everyone. Now in order…

Tvad
Well, I'm always more about the musical involvement than the resolution and details... Naturally, they all add to the mix.

Surely I don’t want that “hi fi” analytical, or clinical dry sound, regardless. I’ll amend the price point if needs be to overcome that result.

Gmood1
Thanks. Names I’ve not heard of but will try giving ‘em a call.

Samzx12
‘preciate it. Thanks.

Ngjockey
What’s “SOTA” mean?

I’ve spoken with Mr. Poon previously about his Monarchy DACs. He’s a sWeLL guy IMO. I’ve no issue with his work at all. At the time I felt to gain some greater technology by attaining a 24/192 set rather than the 16 & 20 bit units he made, with but 96KHz sampling.

Biamping? I let go of that bird after finding what the Silverlines & Dodd monos could do with the Thor preamp. The issue then for my tastes were the JRs. In fact I’d like to have another VK 500 w/BP to try on these sonata IIIs… but actually I’m pretty satisfied now and have little .designs on swapping out anything currently on hand…. ‘cept maybe some wire and possibly a PLC. Maybe.

Kbuzz
Well there’s more votes for the MDHT Labs unit, and the sector & promithias units.

The main issue I have with the Pradisea is having to wait for one to go up on ebay. I seldom have great luck being the first one out of the gate on such things. …and truth be told, I’m not a huge fan of non communication from the maker. Kind of hits me like buying a watch on the street corner… Well, almost.

Jwaugh
I’ve been passively checking out those units from a far for some time now… then and Audio Aero… but neither have USB.

In fact I’m wondering just how much a diff, if any, is there by using a USB DAC, rather than out of a half decent USB sound cards digital output into a standard DAC in the final analysis?

That way would open up other doors by way of later DA technology that isn’t employed in many USB dacS. E. I.E., MORE REGULATION, SEPARATE POWER SUPS, PARTS, ETC.

But THE ‘ONE SIZE FITS ALL’ NOTION, IS PRESENTLY VERY APPEALING…. Albeit the prime candidate to do everything for me is overvalued IMO… in that one respect, John Atkinson and I think alike.

I think.

That’s always my issue…. Too many choices. The answer only reveals itself once installed… usually. At least IF it’s an emphatic and resounding “NO! that definitely won’t do.”… it’s the Maybes that’ll kill ya… uh, well, me anyhow.

Tvad
Thanks for the heads up on the eBay listing.. your efforts are always ppreciated in my regard. Albeit my conservative side says more things than simple price & performance are important for or to, me.

Johnnyb53
Thanks much.

Anybody familiar with the Lavry DA10?

…yes. Or at least I’m getting familiar – er.

Gmood1
Thanks so much for the ongoing illumination of sonic diffs from the Sector unit vs. the Paradisea.

A friend tells me the TADAC is another terrific option. No USB port though. So the PC will need a Coax or Optical output to use it.

I’ve read as much as I can there too.

Good luck with the hunt. You have many to choose from.

… and it’s more wonderment than hunting at this juncture.

Still in all, I can’t divorce myself completely from trying to nail all my birds with just one gun.

Eliminate the need/desire for the USB thingy, and things get simpler. Especially with the noted ‘handshake’ & “drop out” issues apparently common via USB connected DACs. Consequently, if a non up sampling PCI card to the PC is added which comes with a digital out, and no USB DAC is required thereafter.

All I need then is a DAC which will do well in accommodating the clock thing for the box players, has the needed inputs, and has a quality sound…. Or one more to my tastes. Hopefully.

With a brandy spankity new OEM drive in my xa777 it’s screaming at me to try a later tech DAC.

I also think the main issue with the current mega changer and likely a forthcoming one are as well addressed via that self same de-jitterizing aspect of a “??? DAC”. Not to mention the far, far better conversion engine the “??? DAC” will have over stock.

Lest we get all into jitterbugging… I’m aware of the Monarchy DIP 24/96 creation. Which forces one to add a PC, and additional ICs., so the $175 +/- price isn’t all of it’s impact in the end. Adding those figures to the end product makes a 'one unit' concept a better alternative, I believe.

The Lavry DA-10 seems to be holding the cards but at squarely more than my envisioned $600 entry fee limit. The Apogee Mini with it’s outboard PS also is attractive… to some degree.

Those two, the Mini, and the 10 are atop my short list currently. Both only have XLR outs too, which is a minor issue, but a notable one.

If the BC DAC 3 weren't quite so much more money, the choice would be very easy.

Update..

Finding and reading one users’ in depth review of the Lavry DA 10, Benchmark, and a German make DAC whose name I don’t recall now, all in one forum, I felt to take advantage of Lavry Engineering's 15 day in home trial... naturally with the hopes of a far longer trial in mind were it to be to my tastes.

Lavry runs in their products some prior to shipping. It shows too.

I have to admit right out of the box, the DA 10 sure did a good job. with some few days of near round the clock operation, it's even better... albeit not tremendously, but surely better. Straight away, the bass was quite lacking but has since begun to show itself filling out the balance of the presentation.

The DA 10 has improved coherence of the listening event with better depth, image specificity, and tone accuracy. Vocal harmonies are nailed fast in place and set well within a predictable sound stage… One with better lateral expanse, and rear of stage information. Low level detail is easily heard… and all of the presentation is as has been said over and over again… “The sound the DA 10 produces just makes you want to keep listening and rediscovering your musical collection with renewed interest”.

The DA 10 made short work of transforming my mega changer into a quite solid performer. Competitive with my SCD xa777...

I said competitive, not commensurate or equal. The xa 777 showed some good degree of additive performance too, but by lesser degrees, indicating it's finer overall build quality… and being forthright here, a better connection path via a Stereovox XV2 link rather than using the TOS the 400 CDP uses as it’s sole digital out. I suspect still, with the TOS in place on the xa 777, things would be better anyhow… and I did wish to give the coaxial input of the DA 10 a go.

I’ve yet to plug in the Oppo for another perspective… sorry, just forgot about it completely. I still see it as only a DVD player.

The PC has yet to get into the mix as I opted to immerge it via an upscale sound card's AES output... that plan failed as the card's technology was dated and would not allow the current iTunes version to play properly through it.... another card is being sought out presently.

To gain a better perspective, another DAC is forthcoming, but at substantially greater cost so I expect the performance level of it to be an increase over the DA 10's quality showing. It has greater flexibility as well.

I hope this second unit firmly trounces the DA 10, as that will make the choice way simpler. Were it to be only a tad better will really suck for me, by making the choice consequently much more difficult…. The DA 10 is that impressive.

So far, I say so much for JA’s comparisons in stereophile of the DA 10’s upscale sibling to the Benchmark, and still higher priced, Weiss DAC. I’m hoping his reflections remain consistent as this upcoming unit was also discommodiously compared to the Benchmark. Stereophile apparently felt unlike priced component evaluations a fair enough path. I should also add here, I don’t believe even pro reviewers remain entirely objective all the time. IMO.

Kartracer

sorry, but no. I'm superstitious.

Jeffkad
Thanks much.

The things which put me off giving it a go was it's power supply, some uncertainty about which way to wire it for SE operation, and from what I was told by some users of it's 'mid to rear of hall' presentation. The latter, more so than the others, truth be told.

Their support people I spoke with are friendly and readily accessible. it can be had for a reasonable price too. I might yet try it unless this next unit just floats my boat more so than this DA 10 has done so far.

Jeffkad
...and good luck to you as well.

Had I greater paitience and the desire to install a revolving door for equipment at my home, I could have tried several units... and many listed herein on this particular thread.

I have a bit of a philosophical issue there however... and some disdain for sending and receiving gear repeatedly with no intent to purchase at that point in time... 'just browsing...'

... and maybe errantly, I felt not too many makers were up for sending along their DACs to me for an in fact, well, heads up shoot out. Maybe they would have... I dunno.

consequently, some reading, asking here, and stabbing at those which I perceive mostly meet my needs, seemed the best way for me to go.

I'm not thrilled by the cost increases I've encountered now, or will soon, but the performance (given info online) does seem comensurate with the entry fee (s) for each DAC I'm gonna check out.

I feel ultimately my needs will be met in the end... my tastes are the factors padding the price hikes... mostly.

I settled on both this DA 10 and one other due to their industry reputations, past and present... support, and service tangibility. I'm becoming quite leary of products which are driven by singular entities, lately. Depending on the item being produced of course, ie., static devices such as cabling, power sups, tubes, pucks, cones, platforms, etc, all are one off, work or don't work products... I've no issues who makes them or if they remain in business or not. They'll not be requiring serviceing or ongoing attentionn from their makers. Usually.

For those efforts which may require servicing at some future date, amps, preamps, DACs, TT's, etc., I enjoy the assurance the maker has been and is most likely to be around for that event down the road.

Curiously however, in this "cottage industry at it's finest", one never knows. to me, track records, tangible interaction, and performance formulate much of my buying trends presently. I've said previously in fact, exactly that. Thereafter, only price tags are the decider, or limiter.

UPDATE… FINALE?

I’ve decided to settle on or with, the e One DAC 3.

This was indeed a really close call, and a very tuff decision for me too. Only two DACs were listened too… The DAC3 & the DA10. All the same devices and so forth were used on each. The one exception is the DA 10 comes with ONLY XLR analog outputs. A minor change within the unit needs be made for use in SE mode… Lavry Eng. Made that arrangement for me as a matter of course and at no extra charge. Adapters also were required for SE operation and at added cost. Both of the DACs were tried in SE configuration. No side by side A/B trials were done due to timing and shipping issues… but the comparisons were one right after the other and the same software was used for each comparison.

Not every thing I’ve bought and added to my system justifies it’s price to performance quotient. Some add only marginally, other’s simply are different. The e One uses finesse, and relies on transparency to get your attention. The Lavry DA 10 uses flair, and a colorful presentation to affect the listener.

Undeniably better in some areas, and not so in other ones, the e One DAC3 gained the job over the DA 10 due to it’s remote control use as a preamp, it’s greater bottom end performance and it’s slightly better imaging placement. The sound scapes of both were impressive. These thoughts were consistent using each DAC as a source only..

… and yes, there’s the added features of a USB interface, and both XLR & RCA outs on the Bel Canto unit, but I didn’t see that as a major deal maker or breaker.

Technically speaking, the DA 10 handles word lengths of 16 to 24 bit… and sampling frequencies from 32KHz to 192 Khz., has a headphone jack, polarity inversion, mono listening modes, and a manual volume control.

The e One DAC 3 does 16 to 24 bit word lengths, and 32Khz to 96 Khz, handling only PCM INFO, via the SPDIF inputs. USB handles 16 bits from 32Khz to 48Khz onl doesn’t allow for polarity inversion, mono listening mode, nor does it have a headphone jack. It also has both types of analog outputs, XLR & RCA.

Using the added features of the DAC3, things became unfair. AS a preamp, the DAC3 showed it’s audiofoolishness characteristics undeniably. Spot on placement of images, ambient retrieval, enhanced bass slam and resolution, and depth of stage info… all were a bit better than the DA 10’s rendering of them…. And well they should be, looking at the price differential!

Used solely as a DAC, the e One DAC 3 prevailed by degrees only, over the DA 10, save the bottom end performance increase which was incontestably superior.

In terms of pure blatant musical appeal, the Lavry gets my vote. I’m solid on that point. The DA 10’s midrange is lovely. Vocalists are simply rendered with great immediacy and that goose bumpy action gets to getting on very often. It comes close too on many other areas and that closeness complicated and exacerbated my final choice. Your’s may be different however. Keys for me were found in the better bass impact, and the remote preamp facilities of the DAC 3. Period.

One could say I drafted by ‘needs’ and a strong argument could well be had there.

If the Lavry DA 10 only had a remote volume control, I would likely have kept it and not thought of interviewing other DACs and saved myself a good amount of money too. The people at Lavry Engineering, though more pointed to the professional recording industry, are quite accessible, immensely forthcoming and very friendly. It didn’t matter if I was just gathering research, or had questions regarding operation and integration, each call was handled within a pleasant friendly, and professional atmosphere. Not once did I get put to voice mail. My emails were all replied to near immediately as well.

If my system were purely solid state, the DA 10 might still be here… BUT I’ve an all tubes system… for the moment… So both it and I could stand up to the higher resolution & diminished euphonic quality (as the result IMHO) yet still remain well satisfied. By comparison as well, the DAC3 is leaner discernibly, yet quite entertaining and involving. Detail, resolution , and musical cues abound, though the presentation does not come off untoward. I detected no added brittleness, etch, grain, or brightness in spite of the clearer window to the music to be had from the DAC 3. It was simply not as full sounding as was the DA 10.

Only the poorest recorded CDs came off as still very poor… with either DAC, but the edge there goes to the DA 10, but they are tolerable on the DAC3 too… so your CD collection won’t be truncated by the purchase of either DAC. Those better CDs are just gonna get more playing time.

If greater resolution, flexibility, and bottom end performance are the needs, and you got the extra $$$ do check out the DAC 3.

If adequate bass, musical involvement, and $$$ is a real concern, make a point of checking out the Lavry DA 10 DAC. It too has a volume control so depending upon how your system is configured it might be just the ticket! My configuration has the gear in one room, and the loudspeakers and myself in another… so remote operation was a big plus for me… add to that I do like bass info to have impact and presence.

To categorize each using a more familiar allegory, I’d have to say, the e One is A Dodge Viper…. Speedy, remarkably fast, and a real head turner. The DA 10 is a 500 series BMW…. it doesn’t have quite the sheer brute force and speed of the e One, but it’s agile handling and fleet pace gets you there with a plusher ride. Neither will make you miss the scenery along the way.

Gmood1

Thanks much... there was far more to say about each, but there's the gist of it... and so much for budgets.

Still there are yet more worth checking out for sure... for now however my systems performance is again improved upon.