Is your image centred?


I am giving up on my old Analog rig soon!
The image on most of my disk is not centred! Some shifted to the left, some shifted to the right!! Yet, some are dead centred!!! WHY???
My rig:
Thorens 125 mark2
SME 2009R
Otofon MC20 Super, Grado Prestige Gold
luna

Showing 5 responses by sns

You say cd's are no problem, ie. it is something in your phono stage, turntable or cartridge. Cartridge allignment, especially azimuth has a lot to do with channel equalization. Otherwise I would say you are properly hearing what is on some recordings.

I don't understand you don't hear this lack of centeredness on cd as well. I hear it on both cd and vinyl, drives me nuts at times. The people mixing some of these horrors gotta be idiots.

Anyway, perhaps the problem is in your digital?

I also notice as my system increases in resolution, much greater air and spaciousness around images decreases the bothersome aspects of strange production values. A smaller, more focused soundstage makes these anomolies more bothersome to me.
I also mostly hear the off center effects with 70's and 80's lp's (mostly rock), although some lp's from all era's have this anomaly.

I also hear variations within the soundstage. The most hard panned information can sound like it is coming right out of either the left or right speaker. Sometimes hard panned images can also be located at various depths right behind speakers.

As for the loudest sounds (what I would call the center image), that can vary anywhere within the soundstage, in other words, from side wall to side wall (sometimes even the illusion of outside the walls), it can also change in depth, from in front of the speakers to the front wall. This also sometimes changes within a single cut and/or album.
Also, often the highest level information is off centered, while lower level information is centered. If you understand how a stereo mixing board works, you'll discover that almost any variation of imaging is possible.

I would think if you are hearing every album with a centered or near centered image, you're not hearing a high resolution system. The fact you hear variation in central images is actually a good thing!
Luna, you are correct, they often remix the remastered cd's. Still, I have any number of cd's that replicate what I hear with analog, ie. strange imaging.

I also simplified what can happen in the studio during mixing. It is not only mixing boards, but miking techniques, the mikes used, the recording space, limiters, faders, equalizers, compressors, etc., all can affect imaging as well. The amount of tools they have is almost unlimited, its no wonder there is almost infinte possibilities in reproduction of soundstaging/imaging.

As Dan ed alluded to, there are some who don't prioritize imaging on the sonic palette, Art Dudley of Stereophile being perhaps the best known. There is no doubt a system with good imaging can make some of these anomalies more difficult to listen to. As for myself, I don't prioritize imaging, but I find it critical to reproducing a more live experience in the home, three dimensional images (holographic) can be a thrill. One's system can excell in all sonic parameters if one is willing to work for it, I don't want to deny myself anything in the sonic palette. It sounds like your system does imaging pretty well, enjoy it for what it is.

As for the differences between digital and analog. You should be hearing more of these anomalies with your digital setup. Digital has more inherent seperation, which should exasperate sounstaging cues, on the other hand, analog often has a larger soundstage which tends to have the same effect. I would suggest your digital is homogenizing imaging, shrinking the soundstage to the point where everything sounds more centered.

One more issue in the recording chain I almost neglected, and perhaps the most critical of all. In monitoring the playback in the recording studio, the systems they use likely don't image or soundstage anything like our home systems. Look inside many recording studios, and they have speakers tacked to the wall, they haven't a clue as to what we're going to hear at home!
I'm with Dan_ed on this one, this is soundstaging. Images are never always going to be centered, producers and engineers fool with this stuff all the time. If a hard or medium panned image was centered this would be wrong.

Also, these images often shift within a song, a voice on the right side may shift to the left side over the length of the song. Cds do this as well.

On the other hand, one may have issues with a weak center image, this is generally due to room interaction issues. It could also be setup or electronic issues.

I think Luna is experiencing mixing anomalies on lps. If he never has a strong center image then it is something else. The one thing I don't get, is why he doesn't seem to have this issue with his digital.
Your variations from track to track point to cartridge alignment issues, you should have very little variation within a single LP. I suggest if you're going to keep your present turntable for some time, get the MintLp Tractor alignment device, about $100, your deck will sound a lot better. I found it better than VPI alignment jig and DB protractor. Just google MintLp tractor.
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