Is my amp "High Current"?


Hi, I own a McCormack DNA 0.5 amp that has been upgraded to rev. A at SmC Audio. I read about speakers benefiting from using a high current amp, and was wondering if mine was considered to be one.

Thank you.
koestner

Showing 8 responses by nsgarch

Adman227, your quote (from Montytx) is why I said I thought there was some confusion over power vs. current. Again, I recommend this site:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html
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I think y'all are confusing power with current.

1. Watts are a product of volts times current
2. So 200 watts could equal (A) 1V x 200A or (B) 200V x 1A
3. When impedance (ohms) drops, and the speaker wants lots of watts, you could give it A or B, but an electrostat would prefer A because it's a current hungry device, not a voltage hungry device like a cone driver which prefers B.
4. Tube amps (generally speaking) have more amps in each watt while SS amps have more volts in each watt,
5. Ergo, a 35 watt tube amp may be capable of delivering the same amount of CURRENT as a 200 watt SS amp.

So if it's current you're after, a good tube amp will do it -- if it's voltage you need, you'd be happier with the SS amp. The thing is, that unlike stats, cone drivers generally don't drop significantly in impedance as the frequency rises, however they do call for more power (in the form of volts not amps), when controlling (damping) large woofers.
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Inpep, you state:
Electrostatics do not demand high current, but are voltage driven.
Is that your opinion, or do you have a reference for that 'fact'?

Electroststics are essentially voltage driven devices, i.e. the membrane responds to the varying voltage of the stator panels.
Except for the Quad 57, all other commercially manufactured electrostats have a constant, DC, high-voltage/low-amperage potential in the stators (supplied using AC from the wall) and a varying potential in the moving membrane which is derived from the audio signal. They are NOT voltage *driven* since there is no work for the voltage to do, ie, no electrons for it to MOVE between two points. Only electroSTATIC forces are created. An electroSTATIC speaker is simply a big, flat, capacitor. As I'm sure you know, a given value capacitor passes more and more signal (alternating CURRENT) as the frequency increases -- which is why the impedance (resistance) of stats GOES DOWN AS THE SIGNAL FREQUENCY GOES UP ;-)

For a freally clear expanation of circuits and how they work, I highly recommend this site:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html
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Inpep, voltage is defined as the POTENTIAL to do WORK by MOVING electrons from one point to another. In an electrostatic speaker, electrons do not move across the gap between the membrane and the stator(s) unless of course the two happen to touch, or the current builds up to the point where there is and electrostatic discharge -- arcing -- in which case the speaker is damaged by a hole being burned in the membrane. The membrane's movement is generated solely by the (alternating) attraction/repulsion of the charged surfaces, nothing else.

A constant high voltage (potential) is maintained on the stators, generally on the order of 20,000 volts. You don't get a shock because there's virtually no current associated with it, no capability of those volts to push any electrons through you ;-) The membrane has a constant potential as well, but it changes from + to - at whatever frequency the signal dictates. The faster the polarity alternates, the more current is required. That's how AC works, only in reverse. It produces current by CHANGING polarity, and NOT by pushing electrons through miles of wire (which BTW is what we'd have if Westinghouse hadn't prevailed over Edison ;-) ANYWAY, Ohms Law says I = V/R. Current = Volts divided by Resistance. Higher frequencies require more current to produce them (just the opposite of an AC generator) and from Ohms formula, if I gets bigger, and V stays constant, then R must get SMALLER. And there you have it. Yes, the amp must provide more power (watts) at higher frequencies, but only as much as necessary to increase the CURRENT to the membrane. The membrane doesn't need volts, because very little WORK is being done to move it. P (watts) = I (Current) x V (Volts) So if an amp can deliver watts which consist mostly of current instead of volts, that'll be just fine for a stat. In most (high or low wattage) SS amps, the current they deliver is rather a smaller proportion of each watt. Whereas, a tube amp's watts consist of a rather higher proportion of current in each watt. So if all you're after mainly is current, why not choose a lower wattage tube amp? And you get the bonus (IMO) of tube sonics to boot ;-)
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Inpep, it's OK to think of it this way I suppose:
it is the speaker that 'decides' what it needs to produce sound, not the amplifier.
so long as it's understood that what is meant by "decides" is whether the speaker presents an electromagnetic load to the amp, or an electostatic load to the amp. If the load is electomagnetic, the amp will be required to supply voltage, but at a more or less constant current. If it's electrostatic, the amp will be required to provide current but at a more or less constant voltage.

So lets say you have a 40W tube amp, and that at 40 watts output, you're getting the product of 10A x 4V (= 40W) Now lets say you have 100W ss amp and that at 100 watts output you're getting the product of 10A x 10V (= 100W).

So both amps can deliver 10A. But the tube amp can deliver 10A at 40W output, while the ss amp delivers 10A at 100W output. If you need big voltage to provide power to drive an electomagnetic load like a big woofer, the high output ss amp makes more sense because it delivers 10V at it's max. 100W output. The toobie only delivers 4V at its max. 40W output. But if you're driving an electrostatic load, then the tube amp makes more sense because you can get the same current at less than half the power output of the ss amp. And you're gonna say, "So what, you're still driving the stat with 40W instead of 100W, so it won't be as loud as with the SS amp." However, that's not true if you're delivering the same high current (not voltage) the stat needs to generate strong electrostatic attraction/repulsion. In fact it is this property of tube amps which leads to the (erroneous) statement, which you may have heard, that "Tube watts are more powerful than SS watts." This is of course bullpuckey. I just depends what kind of watts your speaker "decides" it needs ;-)
Inpep, you still appear to misunderstand the the terms voltage, power and current, and more important, how they relate to each other. If you will spend some time with this site:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html
until these relationships are second nature, you will understand what I am trying to say.

Speakers (with voice coils, and primarily woofers) need power (watts) if it takes work to move them (power = voltage x current.) BUT, they need those watts (power) to come primarily from a larger reservoir of voltage since voltage drops as power is consumed. An ESL needs power too, but from a reservoir of current. As the frequency rises and the impedance drops, yes, they need power too, but they are going to draw current out of those watts to maintain the strength of the static charge on the membrane. They don't need volts for that!

All amplifiers supply BOTH increasing voltage AND current as the volume (input signal to the amp) is increased. The maximum output of the amp (in watts) is a product of its max. voltage times its max. current, and those two can be in ANY proportion. But with tube amps, current is usually in larger proportion to voltage than in ss amps where it's the reverse. I just don't know how to say it any more clearly.
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Bob, so far, no one has explained just what it is that's "reversed" about my description(s). I am just using Ohm's Law as it exists for all circuit design. And although I'm still confused as to the point you're making, my point is simply that if you are driving an ESL, you can enjoy equal performance with either a ss or a tube amp, but you'll have a lower electric bill (use less watts) using the tube amp. Conversely, if you want to drive a speaker with a lot of electomagnetic drivers, a SS amp will use a lot less power (from the electric company) than a tube amp capable of delivering equivalent performance. Maybe I didn't make that clear at the beginning ;-)