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Is it speakers or my rock/metal music? Plus help ?

Hello everyone,



So 3 months or so ago I finally decided to allow myself what I've always wanted since being a teenager browsing Stereophile magazine at the library, a true pro setup.



Here's the thing, I primarily listen to heavy metal. All over the place from the typical Disturbed, Pantera, Metallica, to black metal such as Dimmu Borgir, death metal such as Nile, power metal like Rhapsody, Stratovarious, techno metal with bass, etc.



I've got about 10 cd's I've been listening to on the systems I've been demoing, over and over. One of them is the new Lady Gaga, and man that sounds great on anything. But the other CD's are hit or miss. The main thing I hear is a REVERB to TINNY type sound, like the band is playing off in the corner, or there is a medium echo in the music. This can be heard on all systems to a high (very annoying) degree, or a low degree. The more I turned up subs the more this went away. This also can be heard on cheap systems, but somewhat easily EQ'd away. None of the dealers have any EQ setup so I haven't been able to flirt with that except for the occasional treble knob, which doesn't help much. Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about or how to find the system that would best eliminate this? The dealers have had several hypotheses from the all too simple "crappy recording being revealed" (which I don't really believe is the case with a number of these such as new Stratovarius and Disturbed's Believe), too "high fi systems shoot for a wide sound stage" to "these are made more for classical, etc."



To help explain further I've listed a number of the systems that I've demoed below along with my notes. My apologies on not knowing the exact details of everything. The dealers up here are all VERY friendly, but also don't all exactly have great ability to switch equipment or actually even play the items that they would recommend to me.



**Second part of my question is also advice on the equipment below and any thoughts here or otherwise. My budget for the system (including surround sound, projector etc) is around 80-100k IF I'm totally blown away. Yes I know that is a lot of money. That budget is for a full audio/video system, however, what I'm really concerned about is 2 channel audio. I'm not nearly as picky about movies as I don't even know what to listen for and figure I'll be happy with anything I come up with in that regard (correct me if I'm wrong).



My room is fairly large, about 25x45x9 and naturally I haven't heard anything down there yet.



Here's what I've demoed in the shops:



Monitor Audio - Platinums, powered by a Sunfire amp (model unknown), Marantz CD player and preamp, as well as 2 JL Audio F212's, in a large room (20x35). Sounded VERY tinny. Wasn't impressed at all with the Monitors. The JL Audio subs sounded great though and put out a ton of bass.



Revel Salon 2 - powered by an older powerful Crown amp (model unknown), Marantz CD Player and preamp, as well as 2 JL Audio F212's in a large room (20x35x10). Similar setup to the above. One of the best sounding setups yet. There was only a bit of the tininess/reverb sound on this system, but enough for me to question what is going on. Plus the Revels are very pricey (18k) so I want to make sure I get it right. The bass oddly wasn't nearly as impactful with the Salon2's, no idea why, I just didn't seem blown away by it at all, and I had the subs turned up near 3/4 volume.



Paradigm - Signature S8 powered by a McIntosh two channel amp and Mc preamp (CD Player unknown) along with 1 JL Audio F212, in a smallish room (12x15x10). Now, this was probably the best sounding setup of them all. At one point listening to these I had a moment where I was moved, all of a sudden everything came together. I keep thinking this is the system, but I read bad things about the Mc and the Paradigm or not nearly in the same class as some of the speakers so I'm wondering if it was the ROOM. Only one sub and it seemed to just kick hard and the tininess/reverb was to a minimum, especially after the owner made a cable swap (seemed to actually make a difference) based on my complaints. Was it the Mcintosh amps??



I've also listened to Bryston Model 2's, Wilsons (some set around 50k), and B&W (something around 12k), with decent amps but only average subs. Was underwhelmed with all of those, the Model T's sounded the best.



The one thing I'm pretty for sure on is that the JL subs easily carried the day in most situations, so I think I'm going to spring for 2 Gotham G213 and assume that will at least totally take care of the bass part of things. I'm hoping to demo the Paradigms again and see if I get the same feeling, and also the Revels again as well as perhaps try the Legacy higher end stuff. Any other recommendations and general advice would be greatly appreciated.



Aaron

nobleknight

Showing 4 responses by bifwynne

bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Interesting OP Nobleknight.

Ironically, because I struggle with chronic upgraditis, Revel Studio 2 speakers are on my bucket list, together with Focal Electra 1038 Be IIs and Magico S5s. The common denominator being BERYLLIUM tweeters. My current speakers are ...... Paradigm S8s (v3) (with beryllium tweets), plus a Paradigm Signature Servo sub.

What is particularly ironic is that I am satisfied with my speaker/sub combo. It's the unknown ... is there something better ... that's has me wondering and which drives me. I have yet to listen to the other speakers listed above. Yet ... I suspect that even if I was able to arrange a fair audition, I might walk away like you ... scratching my head asking "how can Paradigm S8s sound like they're in the same ball park as the top Revel's, least of all be in the same conversation?"

Interesting OP.

I suspect that the Paradigm S8s are the best kept secret, best bargain in audio. Performance way beyond their price point.

Let us know how you make out.
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Bgpowell ... the Op actually liked the Revels a lot and commented that they are "[o]ne of the best sounding setups yet." Perhaps your post implies that as good as the Revels sounded, they might have sounded even better if they were matched with a better front end. That could be?

The Salon 2 speakers are Class A rated by Stereophile -- if that means anything to you. That's why the Studio 2 speakers are on my bucket list. I'd fall out of my listening chair if I walked away thinking that my S8s and sub are in the same ball park as the Studios. One day I may find out.

I forgot to mention this above, but another speaker that has me wondering is the Quad 2805 or 2905. I haven't listened to ESLs for a long time. I wonder how they would sound???
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Bgpowell, that's what I've read about the old Crown amps too. Ironically, back in the day, one of the best hi-end shops in the Philly area touted the Crown as the cat's meow of amps.

I used to own the DC 300, which I traded away a bunch of years ago. Since then, I bought a DC 300A for my son's mid-fi rig. I also bought a D-150A as a back-up, which I subsequently gave to my brother. These amps can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

One of these days, I'll borrow back my son's DC 300A and give it a listen. Would be curious to learn whether the negative press is warranted.
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Phasecorrect ... or Santa Claus. Move the "n" back 2 spaces and evil is transformed into good. :)
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