ICEpower Digital Switching Amps?

They sound more alike than a random selection of Class AB amps will.

I have built and sold more of both types than you have.

BTW.........do you get paid to shill for Henry?

We use ICEpower in some of our amps. Some with the built-in SMPS, others with separate toroidal transformer supplies.

In addition, we use some other brands of amp modules. The difference in supply/module combination is the intended application, and price point.

As has been covered in another thread, there seems to be a family resemblence in all of these products. If I were a consumer, I would not let my decision on which type or brand to buy be biased on what module or supply any of the any products out there uses. Price, looks, support, features, and comfort level with the company that you chose to buy from will most likely be what your decision is based on.

If you read what I wrote, I did not say that they "stand on equal ground".

You do not know how many I have sold, or how many competitors amps I have had to analyze (for any number of reasons). Don't assume facts not in evidence. I do not know who or what you are, but you are not a designer of power amps. I know a lot of the "big names" in the industry, and I am certain that their opinion will more closely mirror mine than yours.

As for "robust and expensive power supply", would you care to be more specific? The ICEpower modules require 3 power supplies to operate. Takes up room, costs $ to implement. Even if you take short cuts.

First off, I did register as a manufacturer. I appeared here as I received a number of e-mails and phone calls about my products, which were mentioned in another thread. I am mainly here to discuss amps in general, more than to promote myself or my products. If there is a search function, you can find the posts that I first appeared in. If not, look for the one about experiences with "digital switching amps".

As for power supplies.............

We have not found that there is a major difference between modules when powered by linear supplies vs. ones powered by the onboard SMPS on the ASP series. This is not to say that differences do not exist. But compared to the effect that suppies have on linear amps, they are less sensitive. See my comments in another thread about power supply caps. I have a huge collection of caps that should have worked, but sounded like dreck.

An amp is really nothing more than a modulated power supply. On switching amps, the switching stage acts more like a power supply than does the output stage of a Class AB amp, which pretty much acts as variable resistor stuck between the output and the supply. Therefore, the AB types are more sensitive to what happens ahead of the output stage.

I base my comments that switching amps sound more alike on these effects. You are of course free to be of a different opinion, but listening plus designing trumps listening only in my book.

OK?

This is getting old. I am not here to bang you guys over the head with sales BS. If I were, you would see me here more often.

OTOH, someone else can not seem to say diddle without pitching his favorite brand. Give it a rest, will you, bub.

I do not mind discussing amp stuff in general with the type of person who may be a potential customer. I do it more to gain insight into what they feel is important, rather than try to force feed them what I think is important.

This whole conversation was started in another post, concerning experiences with "digital switching amps." It is the belief of not only myself, but other designers, and customers, that there is a distinctive sound to the entire genre. Some find it annoying; others hear it, but do not consider it to be a flaw. Especially in light of all the things that they seem to do right.

I think that it all comes down to what listeners feel the most important sonic qualities of an amp. Some want something that is clean, accurate, powerful, and can be listened to for hours on end. To this end, amps such as mine, Henry's, JR's, and the rest seem to fit the bill quite well. (There are many others, and since they have not been mentioned here, I am not going to give them free press.)

Other listeners want "that magic........that tube midrange magic". I do not listen for that, so if I build a product that has that as a shortcoming, I am not surprised.

I have received enough feedback from customers who have heard my amps in comparison to the other brands of similar design to know that the problem is not unique either to my amps, and not just to ICEpower amps.

My comments on what may sway a potential customer to decide on Brand A or Brand B are mainly to serve as a friendly reminder that a lot of companies have come and gone in the last 20 years. There is a plethora of outfits popping up, shoving an ASP module into a bog standard enclosure, and viola!, they are in the amp business. Some of us take a more deliberate appraoch to our designs, including the guy who seems to get a lot of free adverising here. In the long run, I would imagine that most of you would feel that those matters would be of importance, in light of the investment a power amp is.

As for supplying an amp for a "shootout".........I have sent evaluation amps out that invariably get involved in one of those. I do not seek that type of comparison, but I do not shy away from them either. However, as a designer, I would find it more beneficial to know how the amp reacts to various types of speakers and cables, than hearing how mine beats Brand XYZ senseless. (High capacitance cables may be the wrong choice, it seems.) Whoever Brand XYZ is does not really concern me: it is someone trying their best to make a living, and I do not intend to make it any more difficult for them. Those of us who have been around long enough can appreciate how hard it is to begin with. No sense making it harder. Not for me, not for anyone.

Anyway, I am interested in hearing your comments and experiences. The ICEpower based amps seem to be a good choice for listeners who are more interested in something that can drive the daylights out of their speakers without driving the listener out of the room. The guys who are listening to 8 W SETs probably aren't going to be happy with them.

If I am off base, let me know. As long as it isn't about Brand ABC vs Brand XYZ. Let's cover that some other place, so that some of us can opt out.

Well, Albert........we have plans to show up one day with a pair so that you can bi-amp. But it was supposed to be a surprise. I have a few coming back from evaluation and/or CES (finally!), so maybe when they show up, we can do it. I assume that you haven't changed speakers in the last 3 months.