How to tame the midrange???


I am almost there with my system, except that the midrange sounds harsh, grainy, and exceptionally digital. Female vocals in particular. It actually sounds like clipping, but I can hear it at any volume level. However, the problem is more noticable as volume is increased. I listen to a lot of acoustic music with prominent vocals, so this is a real problem.
The room is 26 x 28 x 9. Furnishings are 6 piece HT type seating and carpet....nothing else. No treatments at all. I/C cables are Radio Shack's best. I plan to do room treatments and better cables last.
I am thinking a good DAC might smooth things out a bit. Or maybe seperate 2 channel from HT by adding a good 2 channel preamp with HT pass through. (the front speakers are already on seperate amps) Maybe a preamp with tubes. I suppose having the Denon CDP modified is an option as well. My focus is 2 channel. HT sounds good enough as is, and is a low priority. Budget is around 5000.00, but flexible.
The gear is:
Sunfire Theatre Grand II processor
Denon 3910 ....no mods
Classe Seven Hundred Mono blocks for fronts
Adcom 300x7 for center and surrounds (all bi-amped)
B&W 800N fronts
B&W HTM-1 center
B&W CDM9-NT surrounds
Another consideration is that I listen to Comcast Music Choice digital music channels quite a bit through their Motorola box. I think that makes a stronger case for adding a good DAC. I am new at this and rely exclusively on Goner's advise. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
baffled

Showing 3 responses by gmood1

A couple of suggestions.
1) Lose the processor for two channel music. I've never heard one that competes against a dedicated tube preamp or SS preamp. A decent tubed preamp will take you to levels of enjoyment no processor can achieve.

2)You are correct.. You need either modifications to the output stage of the Denon or you need a Dac. I would go with the Dac myself before the mods.The music from the Digital box I suspect is compressed. It will sound better with a Dac in the chain.Probably not as good as a good old fashion cd player run through a Dac though.

If you have $5000 to spend .You could easily do both tubed preamp and Dac with money to spare if you shop smart.You could then use the rest of the money at your discretion on room treatments and cables. Just swapping the preamp out will make a HUGE difference from the start.The Dac will also have a large impact..if you get a decent one..notice I didn't say expensive.;-)

Have fun
Looks like you've nailed it down baffled.You sure have a sea of choices out there and you don't seemed baffled too me. If you have a way to listen to different tube preamps, this could give you an idea. There's still no better way than hearing them in your own system however.

If you still want transparency without making things overly warm or cloudy. I would look at some single ended, OTL, pure Class A and no negative feedback preamp designs.It's so much easier to hear what each tube is contributing to the sound.When there's no negative feedback used.

Technology has progressed to a point now.Where you can find a terrific Dac without breaking the bank. I suggest trying some of the Dacs out there with a return policy. I would start below $1000 retail and maybe move up from there if needed. You may find your satisfied without spending more.

Cables..well that's something you have to decide what's best for you. I don't believe in spending tons of money on cables myself.As long as it doesn't degrade the signal with poor connections , corrosion or broken center conductors... I'm a happy camper. I for one think your headed in the right direction changing the components first. Even with Radio shack interconnects your going to hear a major difference in the component swaps. I'm willing to bet I could secretly swap out the cables in some of the fellow agoner's systems with Rat Shack cables and they wouldn't be the wiser.LOL Try not to get caught up in this cable stuff and listen for the differences yourself.

Now let the fun begin! :-)
[email protected] ,

No where in my post did I mention Baffled using two preamps.I said to swap out the processor for a real preamp.
Yes Meridian processors are great..for movies that is. For music these units suck! His focus is two channel not multi channel music. Maybe you should reread the entire thread before singling out a poster.

How will changing to a good tube preamp and going to a good Dac with a better power supply than the dvd player make the speakers sound bright? Guy you have no idea what your talking about. Maybe some of the B&W stuff is tipped up in the treble..will not argue that. I listened to an older pair of 800 series a few months back at a friends home. These speakers didn't have the tipped up tweeter as you describe.

I've owned a Meridian Stack and it will not give the performance in two channel as a dedicated preamp...sorry no dice!
It's apparent you've only listened to multi channel and HT.LOL

IME most of the harshness and grain comes from crappy opamps and noisy/ bad power supplies in the equipment upstream with poor filtering. Bad connections can cause this also. Hardly ever is it the speaker that causes grain. Especially a speaker of this caliber.