How to meaningfully audition speakers??


I think this topic has appeared elsewhere, even if worded differently. But I thought I'd ask anyway.

Just upgraded my amp and was thinking about auditioning different speakers. Problem is that there are only a handful of high-end B&M stores nearby. Another complication is that no one store has the 2 or 3 speaker brands that I want to check out.

Further, I am dubious that one can meaningfully audition gear by running from store to store because the test conditions are not identical. In addition, unless a piece is really terrible or incredibly terrific, I don't trust my aural memory. Perhaps other have a different view.

Seems to me that the best way to accomplish what I want is to have the speakers of interest brought to my house and hooked up to my rig. But -- I am NOT aware of any dealer willing to part with expensive gear like that, especially if it has to be specially ordered from a distributor because the model is not on display.

So the Q is what do most folks do? Just buy speakers on hope and a prayer?? Rely on reviews or Forum comments??
bifwynne

Showing 8 responses by frogman

I like Mapman's suggestion. IF the sound of live is your goal, I would take Mapman's approach a step further. Listen to as much live music as possible leading up to the speaker audition date(s). Bite the bullet and don't worry about wether it's your favorite type of music or not, favorite venue, or even by good artists; it's not always possible, you are listening for the sound. The idea is to simply recalibrate your ears to what real music really sounds like; we tend to forget that in the pursuit of audiophile stuff. There are enough common threads in the sound of live music regardless of genre, venue, etc. that will become obvious the more you listen to it. Then when you listen to speakers the presence or absence of them will be much more obvious and you will have found your speaker. Good luck.
The subject of the value of the sound of live as a tool for establishing a (at
least partial) benchmark for the accuracy of reproduced sound is a topic
that always elicits strong opinions; some of which are simply misguided.
Misguided because the reasons cited for why it is not a useful tool are, at
best, misunderstood; and, at worst, agenda driven and made by listeners
who seldom (if ever) attend live music performances. The reasons why it
IS a very useful tool should be obvious; problems not-withstanding.

First of all, note that my original comment clearly states: "IF the sound
of live is your goal....". Not everyone has that as a goal, nor is it a
requirement for the enjoyment of reproduced music. However, having said
all that, IMO using the sound of live as a reference can lead one to the
BEST and most satisfying reproduced sound.

Part of the misunderstanding is the exaggeration of the problems with the
live experience; particularly as concerns live classical music, and this is
where most detractors miss the forest for the trees. Sure, SOME classical
music venues do occasionally use sound reinforcement. So what? The
vast majority of venues don't; and even if they do, there is still plenty of
merit in those live experiences that can be very helpful to the audiophile:
the tonal/harmonic complexity of a string section which is seldom heard in
reproduced sound, the proper scaling of instruments in relation to each
other, the beautifully subtle micro-dynamics, and much more. Now, we all
know how horrible the sound can be at many rock and pop concerts; but
even then there are things to be learned. For instance, I have never heard
a kick drum or rim shot reproduced over a stereo (ANY stereo) that had the
visceral feeling and speed heard at even less than great live concerts.
Why? Because in spite of often inferior equipment, bad venues, and
tasteless mixing (NOT Wolf; of course :-) ) there is so much less processing
and sheer stuff that the musical signal has to go through from instrument to
PA speaker than what the signal has to go through when recorded in a
studio, then mastering, pressing; and THEN, all of the stuff in our playback
systems.

No one is suggesting that we subject ourselves to bad sound simply
because it is live, and not be critical of it. But, the truth is that there is
plenty of really good, and sometimes great live sound to be heard if we
keep an open mind and keep our too-fragile audiophile sensibilities in
check.
****Live music is the reference when but one can NEVER it replicate in one's room****

I couldn't agree more. But here is the problem: because of that unfortunate (?) reality, most audiophiles are very quick to abandon the POSSIBILITIES from using that benchmark simply because perfect replication can never be attained. To my ears, far more audiophile sound systems owned by listeners who regularly attend live music performances sound closer to GOOD live sound than systems owned by audiophiles who don't; regardless of preferred music genres.
****The reason live drum sounds don't go through your hifi is the fact that uncompressed drums would blow up most any home system's speakers, unless you're using large, professional, huge coil 15" or 18" woofers****

Understood, and I agree. But, that does not change the truth in my premise; and in a sense you make my point: if you don't know ( through experience) what is possible as far as speed and visceral impact, how can one best judge which component (speaker, in this case) gets closest to that ideal.

****Try it****

No thanks :-)
Charles1dad, thanks for the kind words. Out of respect for the OP's request, I will send you a private message with my thoughts. Cheers.
****Type casting is a no-no as there are always exceptions to the rule: long
haired rockers who always use 11; studious geeks who defer to exactitude;
free thinkers who tend to experiment. **** - Nonoise

That was going to be, essentially, my first comment in answer to
Charles1dad's questions. This is a difficult issue to address because of the
above and because there is no way for me to address it honestly without
ruffling some feathers.

My absolutely honest, no-pulled-punches, sure-to-offend-some opinion,
which many will disagree with, is that there is an unavoidable and
fundamental conflict that always occurs when music and technology meet.
I am, of course, not referring to the technology that makes possible the
existence of electronic instruments, but the technology of the
record/playback and live-sound engineering processes. In these situations
the end result is not fully in control of the musicians but of those coming at
it from the technical side of things. Even in cases where the technical
engineers are themselves musicians they are usually not part of the
creative process, so it takes a very special and sensitive individual to fully
understand the need to get out of the way as much as possible; and by that
I mean, to use the technology to capture as faithfully as possible what the
musicians are creating without putting his own stamp (vision) on it. Of
course, there are instances when that is precisely what the musicians want;
wether it is by way of wanting the engineer to alter a particular aspect of the
performance, or the extreme case of surrendering every consideration to
the producer's vision for the project. The existence of this conflict is the
fundamental reason why I have always insisted that live unamplified sound
is, with all its problems and inconsistensies, the best reference for judging
what an electronic component is doing right or wrong. As far as gear goes
I have always been a fan of the "less is more approach". Gear
that has always sounded the most like music to me is: electrostats without
complex xovers, tube amplification (I use a passive pre) and analog (which,
from my perspective, is simpler in nature than digital). That's not to say that
I haven't heard great sound of a different persuasion, but in my experience
the "less is more" approach has a far better batting record.

One of the most often mentioned music cliches is that there are only two
kinds of music: good and bad. Absolutely true, but it would be naive to not
recognize and acknowledge that, while not necessarily an indication of
ultimate value and worth, some music is simply more sophisticated or, at
least, more complex than others. To be honest and direct, anyone who
thinks that there is as much sophistication of sheer craft in the Beatles', or
even Frank Zappa's, musical legacy as there is in that of Bartok, R.
Strauss, Wayne Shorter or Miles is kidding himself and should do a little
more listening. Anyone who would question that should take a look at the
score for "Der Rosenkavalier" or a transcription of Coltrane's
"Giant Steps"; then, let's talk. Please note that I am not passing
judgement on ultimate merit; rock and pop music bring different things to
the table: the visceral aspect, current social relevance (for better or worse),
and in the case of the best of the genre, SOPHISTICATION IN ITS
SIMPLICITY AND ACCESSIBILITY. Good music is not about complexity
but about its ability to touch our emotions; and that is what makes it good or
bad. Still, the level of nuance in tonal and dynamic shading that one hears
(and is required) in great classical and jazz performance far surpasses that
heard in most rock/pop performances.

What does any of this have to do with Charles1dad's questions? The
sophistication (complexity) of much classical and jazz music DEMANDS a
similar level of sophistication from the engineers if the music is not to
suffer. One example: When a composer orchestrates a piece of music he
takes into account how the chosen set(s) of instruments interact
acoustically to create a certain tonal color via the balance of the volume at
which each instrument is expected to play each individual part; an effect
that no amount of artificial ambience created by the engineer can recreate
and is utterly destroyed by multimicing. Detractors of the live-music
reference often cite how the pin-point imaging heard from high-end audio
systems is missing in live music. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO; it's
seldom what the composer wanted. The multimicing used by some
engineers to "help" matters usually do little more than destroy
those delicate balances; which is but one of the reasons why so many of
the classic recordings form the "Golden Age" sound so great.
Simple mic techniques and respect for the effort that the players put into
balancing their individual parts within the whole is key. Additionally, my
own personal experience in recording studios is that the more commercial
(pop/rock) the project, the less likely it is that the engineer will leave the
booth, stand in front of the players and actually listen to what the music
actually sounds like in the room before it gets picked up by a mic. I think
the implications of that are obvious.

There is an often expressed opinion among musicians that the proliferation
of technological toys to "fix" and "help" the product
in the recording process was not born out of a need for them, but rather,
that engineers actually had to find uses for them. Clearly, many of these
electronic band-aids are put to good use and there clearly are many really
good sounding rock/pop recordings, but it is easy to see how this can also
lead to less reliance on ingenuity and very careful and sensitive
LISTENING on the part of many engineers as was the case in previous
eras when all that gear didn't exist. From my perspective it is not difficult to
understand why the absence of (or, arguably, the absence of a need for) a
true reference (live acoustic sound) in rock/pop could yield fewer examples
of really great sound.
Well, at least you are not saying "mute" as my dear wife insists on saying :-). But, while I agree that "personal taste rules the day", the concept as an analogy is flawed. True, guitar players choose an amp/speaker based on its tonal colorations as a way to create his "sound". But, isn't the goal of a speaker in a playback system to then recreate the sound of that player's chosen amp/speaker's intrinsic sound? The goal in this case is fidelity, not choice; or, at least, that is the traditional definition of "hi-fi".
Dover, I agree completely with your comments. Personally, I think it's an unfortunate state of affairs. A few thoughts re some other recent comments:

- I don't understand the notion that because absolute fidelity is not attainable (it isn't) we should not bother striving for it. Makes no sense to me. I am not willing to "dumb down" the excellence in a minority of my recordings in order to make the majority sound a little "better". I suppose I am in the minority, but I like to hear how a performance was recorded; warts and all.

- We shouldn't confuse the emotional content of a performance with the emotional reaction that "impressive audio" can elicit. Dimensionality ("3D sound") in audio has nothing to do with emotion in music. When an artist performs he is not thinking about how "dimensional" his sound is going to be.

- As usual, when we discuss emotion in music we omit the aspect of music which communicates emotion: dynamics. Not how loud something is or can be, but HOW it gets from soft to loud and every micro-step in between. Is the increase (or decrease) in dynamics from soft (p) to medium soft (mp) every bit as exciting in its seamless (perfectly continuous) quality as the very loud? That is where emotion in music lives because that is what communicates a performer's phrasing and feeling. Then you have subtle tonal color variation which is a performer's second most important way of communicating emotion. If we don't strive for fidelity those things suffer; if only because the end result is not what the performer intended.

- Yes, there is a reliable reference: live, acoustic sound. Anyone who has not made a commitment to listen to a substantial amount of it on a regular basis simply has no basis for claiming otherwise. The idea that because we all have "different heads", different hearing apparatus, or simply hear differently the concept of a reference is invalid is mistaken. Think about it: sure, we each probably do hear differently. So what? If a given listener hears live sound with (for example) a dip at 10K cycles and an emphasis at 2K cycles, that listener will hear a recording of that sound with the exact same dip and emphasis; so, using live sound as a reference is certainly valid. Of course, some will be quick to point out that if we weren't at the original event we don't know what the recording is supposed to sound like. This is where familiarity with live acoustic sound comes in. The more we are exposed to it, the more "common threads" we learn to recognize no matter the venue, recording equipment, or recording engineer. The differences in sound between an oboe and an English Horn are obvious even over the crappy speaker in the elevator. Yet, that "component XYZ made those differences inaudible" as I have heard stated several times only means that the listener simply doesn't know what either instrument really sounds like. There really is no shortcut: if you want to really understand "accuracy" you have to attend live performances. Of course, not everyone has that as a goal.