Great post Liz. I like the way you summed it up: "And if you go and buy [the speakers] online to save a few bucks after using the store to audition. Then you are a bad person." I agree 100% with that view ... and that really is my dilemma. I try to be very straight with people ... just because ... And I think my member feedback reflects that approach.
Without going into specifics, I have a certain speaker in mind right now, say Speaker X. If bought used here on A'gon, I could probably pick up Speaker X for $5K less than discounted retail, which is roughly 35 to 40 percent less. There is no way I will plop myself in a B&M store for hours to check out speakers, with or without talking to a salesperson, and then buy on-line. Just not my style.
As an aside, I have communicated directly with a couple of reviewers who are familiar with my current rig and with Speaker X. The feedback is that Speaker X IS excellent, but the reviewers also said that so is what I already have. I might experience a different presentation, but it's hard to say whether I am stepping up or not.
In the end, I may just quench my curiosity and stay pat and enjoy what I have while my hearing holds out. If really that curious, the comment above about spending some time at a good audio show might be the way to go.
As another aside, IME, what I am finding is that significant improvements are coming at prices that are increasing at geometric rates in excess of what I perceive as the subjective improvements. For example, this may be audiophile heresy, but I just sprung for $4K (net of trade in/resale bucks) to step up from an ARC VS-115 tube amp to the much ballyhooed ARC Ref 150. Is the Ref 150 a better sounding amp. Yes ... I believe it is -- hands down. Is it worth $4K more??? That's a tough call. I certainly wouldn't give up on a necessity for the upgrade. But it is kinda cool to hear the difference. Yeah, it is!
Thanks all for the great comments. Kinda corroborates my thinking.
Bruce
|
I think Mapman's advice makes a lot of sense too. And St114_nj, I posted a comment a little earlier that jives with what you said. Once one hits a certain level, incremental improvements require a lot more due diligence and effort. My comment also touched on incremental cost compared to benefits gained. |
I think the discussion about so called "live" music being a gold standard reference is ok by me and I find the discussion interesting. So by all means, please continue. But since I am the OP, I would like to add my thoughts and then "seg" back to the original topic.
As far as MY personal home audio is concerned, I am looking for a musical experience that I find satisfying and enjoyable. The standard I used to judge whether the experience is satisfying and enjoyable -- simply put -- is whether or not it is.
Now, going back to the original topic, it seems to me that whether one wants to judge any particular piece of equipment by this or that standard is ok. But isn't the real issue as it pertains to speakers, or pretty much any item, is how can one meaningfully audition the speaker of interest or other item??
My sense of the early responses is that many members expressed similar frustration as me. Yeah ...., sometimes one can luck out and a dealer will arrange for a home audition. But most times, many just do the best they can by way of research, perhaps an occasional visit to a B&M store, and so forth. After all of that, in the end, they buy and if they like what they picked up, all is well. If not, hope to sell the piece at not too great a loss, and then try something else.
Thanks,
BIF |
Go for it Frogman. It's a free country and I don't own this thread. I'd like to read your thoughts too. :-)
And ... , Charles1dad's Q is not really so far off point because it indirectly touches on a related aspect of speaker selection. That is the availability of good source material which relates to Chares1dad's recording/engineering quality Q.
After-all, why spend a fortune on any piece of equipment if the availability of source material is limited. Just read all the threads which touch on the benefits and limitations of this or that music media, e.g., vinyl, redbook CD, SACD, streaming digital and so forth.
Seems to me the real starting point is how good a job do recording engineers and artists do in producing good music. Forget what comes downstream. Garbage in -- garbage out. :-')
P.S. apologies if any typos. Had eye surgery yesterday and my vision is still limited. Fortunately, my hearing is ok and I'm enjoying a great redbook CD recording of the 1812 Overture. Reminds me of when I was a kid and my Mom served me and my brothers Quaker Oats Puffed Wheat for breakfast. :-) |
Learsfool ..., happens to be that I agree with you. Just talking out loud for a minute, I wonder if the problem you touch on is exacerbated by the current state of digital media not conforming to a uniform industry standard. Seems to me that each digital media has its unique quirks, and sound engineers are lucky to figure out how to turn the equipment on, let alone effect reference point fidelity recordings.
I recall a few posts that described the engineering guys who handled analogue recording in the day as being artists in their own right. And that included dubbing and mixing, then the transfer of the recorded music from tape to master pressing disc and then on again to the skills needed to properly press the vinyl.
I look forward to reading other informed views. And as I said above, it seems kinda dumb to talk about this piece of gear or that if you can't get good source material. |
Frogman, I agree as a general principle that an "audiophile" grade rig should be able to create the real thing as closely as possible. True "fidelity" I suppose?? But I am dubious that even the very best rig (and all that the term entails) can do more than approach the aspirational standard. Further, it is my experience that each incremental improvement is coming at a cost that increases at a rate that is disproportionate to the incremental improvement.
At this stage of the game, I have become more circumspect about what any component change can really achieve. Instead, my goal is to assemble a system whose individual components are compatible and whose musical presentation is engaging and enjoyable. Further, as a number of folks have mentioned above, even if one is able to assemble a perfect rig, the quality of source material is spotty.
Last point -- an obvious truism I think. This OP was about how to meaningfully audition speakers. I was hoping for some new insight that I may have overlooked. It seems that the bottom line is that it's a very difficult thing to do given the state of our hobby. And that goes to other components as well. My experience has been buy pre-owned top grade components, try them, keep what works and sell what doesn't.
Best and thanks for all the comments.
BIF |
Frogman, you make some very fair points about listening to live performances to train the ears to understand accuracy. A little while ago, my wife and I attended a performance of the Philadelphia Orchestra at the Kimmel Center. I forget how I managed to get affordable front/center Orchestra seats, maybe 15 or 20 rows back, but I did. I also forget the musical selections.
But it doesn't really matter. The point is that I still recall the incredible experience of being that close to the performance. Not just hearing the music, but feeling it. Be it the tympani, the bass section, violins. Whatever.
Does my rig recreate that experience?? Sadly, ... no. Nevertheless ..., I still enjoy the musical presentation. Is the deficiency the rig or the source material? Both. But every once in a while, I spin a great recording (CD or LP) and I'm having a ball.
I am the OP of this thread. I admit there's plenty of room for improvement in my system, the room, power delivery, etc. What's frustrating is that speakers are so essential, yet so difficult to select. That's why I started the thread. Almarg makes a great point that some speaker manufacturers allow home trial. I'll keep that in mind if I decide to switch out my current fronts.
Thanks for the great posts and terrific insights.
Bruce |
