How can anyone afford this ?


I consider myself a dedicated audiophile. I am 36(which I am guessing is a little younger than the average here) and single. I have been interested in high-end audio since I saw my uncle's Mcintosh and Threshold equipment for the first time when I was 5.
Since joining the workforce and saving a little I have always been trying to put together a nice system on a budget. I do OK financially(I am a systems engineer) but I do live in NYC which may put some of this into perspective.
Over the last 6 months I have struggled to buy(all used on Agon) a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42s and a Threshold CAS2 amp, Chang CLS3200, and cables(I haven't gone out[I don't have a girfriend], purchased anything else and really haven't eaten too much to be able to afford these and it is still a real stretch). I am using the amp with a direct connection from my CD/DVD player(Cambridge Audo Azur 540D...slightly modified[op amps, PS caps, bypass caps] that I have had for almost 10 years). A fellow has a Threshold FET2 series II(to match with the CAS2) he is holding for me but that seems like a pipe dream at this point along with a turntable.
A few years ago the analogue bug hit me.
I had a setup consisting of an Audio Analogue Settanta integrated and a Nottingham Horizon SE turntable with a Rega RB300 tonearm with the Incognto rewire and structural mod. This was not an expensive kit by any stretch but for me it almost put me in the poor house. I had to sell the entire rig to pay my bills and it hurt.
It seems over the last 10 years or so I have not been able to keep a kit for more than 6 months before I had to sell it. Whenever I don't have a rig I am constantly scanning the online Ads lusting for the next bargain to set up a system and cannot even listen to music on a mass market rig(I have been spoiled).
Anyway, I guess my question is how can anyone normal afford this hobby? What type of money do you have to be making to be able to enjoy this hobby.....$100,000/year? $500,000/year? Do you need to be worth millions? $5,000 barely gets you in the door(some interconnects cost more) and you could possibly spend millions. I am not looking to put together a $10,000 system(not even close...and that is modest in this hobby) but if I wanted to I don't see it ever being financially possible. If I had a girlfriend or a family(hopefully someday) I would not event be able to think about this hobby with a good conscience. I guess I am wondering if all these people in this hobby are millionaires? I am close to selling my rig again to pay the bills(the amp needed repair/recap and that was $450). Any advice for an audiophile who lusts to put together a nice rig but can't afford it? Should I get out and save for 5 or 10 years and then try again? Maybe I am in the wrong hobby but it is more addicting that crack to me(and more expensive). Maybe I should be a crackhead instead...that might be the only thing to make me forget about it. Thoughts?
adamd1205

Showing 7 responses by mceljo

If you're constantly having to sell gear that you've purchased you're buying things that you cannot afford.

If your gear is worth enough to make a significant impact on your budget when selling then you're likely buying things that you cannot afford unless you've built the system slowly over a long period of time.

You don't have to own an extremely expensive system to have excellent sound quality. I replaced just about every component in my system last year for about $6,000 (It was all overtime and overtime isn't part of the budget at my house...now that we're expecting a kid things will change). My system may not match some of the ones on this forum, but it's good enough that the vast majority should be able to enjoy listening to music and this is the main goal. My non-audiophile friends are blown away by the way it sounds and I can come home from the audio store and enjoy it after listening to systems worth many times more. I would argue that nobody NEEDS a system that's better than what I have to enjoy music, but we all WANT more.

I would guess that the majority of the people on this forum that own the super expensive equipment fall into one or a combination of the following categories: (1) wealthy, (2) system build over many years & (3) purchased used and deep discounts. Some people own system worth more than their cars and even houses. This is a matter of priorities as most people cannot have it all.

I would suggest picking up some quality components and slowly building a system and never sell your gear unless it's for an upgrade. If you can't do this, then you're dreaming beyond your means. It's one thing to have the economy take you down and force some hard decisions, but if it happens multiple times then you need to evaluate your lifestyle in my opinion.
Just a short follow up on this topic for others that might be reading this thread feeling like the OP and don't already have gear. I'm not one to make purchases with the intent of upgrading and also generally avoid buying used. While I understand the value of used equipment I understand that for myself I'm more happy when I research what I want and then purchase it. I always have a fairly specific budget in mind and once I get the item that I want I'm almost always happy for a long long time. With this perspective in mind, that I know other share, here's the system that I'd purchase if I was looking looking for a budget system.

Pioneer Elite SX-A6MK2-K Stereo Receiver $700
Pioneer Elite PD-D6MK2-K SACD/CD player $700
Focal Chorus 706v Speakers $650
Focal Chorus S700V Speaker Stands $200
Total: $2,250

There are obvious many possible systems in this price range that are equal or better, but I'm positive that I'd be excited to own this rig.
Frogman - You're not too far off the mark. We all tend to want more no matter how much we have. My wife and I make a solid income, just under $200k combined, have two cars that are paid for and live in a "small" house that's under 1,400 sq-ft. We don't have any debt outside of the house payment, contribute to savings and retirement so I consider that we're financially responsible, but sometimes I wonder where all our money goes when I compare to friends that are living on less than half of what we make. I actually feel like I'm wasting my money, sometimes, by needing as much as we seem to make. I know it's possible to live on much less but I also know that we could spend more if we had it. I think the last time that I saw the statistics we were in the top 5% for income in the US and almost everyone I know lives in a bigger house and many drive nicer cars. I often wonder how much dept they must have. I think the key is to focus on your financial life and make good decisions for you and your family. It's impossible to compare to other because you don't know if they really have the money that it appears or are just carrying a ton of debt.
Here's another example of to show that you can't compare yourself to others when it comes to finances. I have a good friend that started working the same day that I did and the way promotions work we'll likely always make just about the same amount of money unless one of us chooses to move into management. Most people consider him to be the typical selfish toy buyer and would never expect him to really be responsible with his money. All they see is his new toys, but what most didn't realize is that he's put more into his retirement than anyone I know, doesn't go into debt, but does spend very freely with the remainder of his money. I was scratching my head recently when he and his wife purchased a 4,100 sq-ft house that cost over $400k. I can't imagine wanting a house that big, but also don't know how'd I'd afford the payment. I found out later that he actually had enough cash in the back to put the majority of 20% down without selling their other house. I was impressed. As it turns out he'd been banking a ton of his per diem and overtime from several years of traveling for work. Even I didn't realize how financially solid he was. He's one of my best friends and I wouldn't have guessed how much money he'd saved in an effort to purchase the house of his dreams.
Ironically, audio discussion are very similar to duscussion that happen on relligious forums. Nobody ever convinces anyone of an alternate view and there's not way to tangibly prove who's right or wrong or if there's even a distinction. Audio costs lots of money and the marketing is often not much different than the lies spurted out by politicians. Finally, paying the retail prices of most high end audio gear is the equivalent of getting screwed so I'd propose that discussion about audio equipment is nothing more than a tasteful way of discussing money, politics, religion and sex...
Manitunc - What you're describing is somewhat how Focal is using an in-house automated production to manufacture the Chorus line of speakers. They share some of the technology of the more expensive lines, but you are not paying for them to be hand built. Their manufacturing capability also allows them to build new speakers quickly from start to finsh making the fine tuning of a final product easier. Focal wanted to maintain control of their products while reducing the production costs.
Not to bring religion into this discussion, but at church this week the guest speaker was talking about American history and how people thought about things around the time of the original 13 colonies. Basically, he pointed out that even though it sounded like it was all about equality what they really meant was equality for those that were part of the elite class. Evidence for this was the fact that blacks were only counted as 3/5ths of a person for voting (there were more examples). There's always been a mindset that not everyone is equal even though we all are guilty of considering certain types of people less than ourselves. He also pointed out that there is nothing in Capitalism about helping others. Keep in mind that this guy has served in the armed forces and isn't a "nut." His point was that Christian's were ingoring their call to help the less fortunate and instead were relying on the legistated help (i.e. wellare) that will really never work.

I guess how this concept ties into this discussion is the trickle-down effect somewhat requires people in the "elite" classes to set things up such that the less fortunate have the opportunity to benefit from the economy or the overall wealth. With the goal of Capitalism being the success of the individual above all else it's unlikely that the people in power would ever set things up to benefit those that they consider lower than themselves. It's basic selfishness.

By the way, his point wasn't that something was wrong with the government, but that anyone claiming to be a Christian should take an active role in supporting those that were less fortunate rather than relying on others to do it for them.