Hello ,
In regards to amplifiers: If you can't drive a 2 ohm load, you are mid-fi IMO .
regards, |
Adcom and early Parasound amps I don't consider high end. A high-end amp will provide a spacious soundstage, float the airiest highs, deliver a full but sparkling midrange, and has excellent dynamics/bass without sounding boomy. It should do all this and still sound musically involving & refined. Given that & without an equally high-end preamp you will fall short of your goals - 02-28-11: Phd
I have seen them send off many a so called hi-end amps, the magic is in the load ..
regards,
|
Atmasphere, Weseixas answer is very vague plus his statement that an amplifier should have the ability to drive a 2 ohm load otherwise he considers it midfi, is misleading. But if you do some searching under his user name you will see that his statement reflects his frustration to find an amp that will drive ribbon speakers. -Phd
No frustration ,
I can build my own ( i have) or buy what i want ( done so 2 ) A true high end amp should be a perfect voltage source IMO, end of story.
Atmasphere:
Sound is very subjective, one man's euphoria is another' anathema. An amplifiers job is that of an voltage source, expensive high end amplifiers that cannot replicate such, is well ................
A Pretender.
Regards, |
Wolf garcia, you are correct, Boulder amps are high-end. The Adcom 565 mono blocks also are heavy with very large power supplies but they do not sound high-end. Just a case in point.
-Phd
Agree the sound is , well, but they do not cost high end money and will see off many pretenders IMO, maybe even one of your favorites..
regards, |
03-02-11:
Weseixas what amps do you feel are hi end and which are not in your experience?
Is the 2 ohm load spec you mention your current speaker load?
-Rleff
No, i have multiple speakers, currently using not 2 ohm, my speakers have nothing to do with my statement , try and understand that .
A true hi-end amp would be a perfect voltage source, there are available, Krell,levinson, Classe, Audia flight, MBL,et al, it is the basic premise of making a true hi-end amplifier after which other parameters fall into place.
Regards, |
03-03-11:
One of the above posters mentioned Levinson being hi end . I would not consider my Levinson #431 hi end . In fact I would not consider any of my system high end , ( see my system link ) . It used to be if you spent $10,000 on a single component you were in that elite group but now with six figure gear the bar has been raised , not that price is what matters .
-Tmsorosk
Tmsorosk, i would consider Levinson hi-end , absolutely not mid-fi...
regards, |
Ralph,
You are right, my apologies, I will take back my opinion.
regards, |
Ohhh,
Audio playback is not static, ever thought what you are considering to be good or bad audio has more to do with the dynamic application involved than it's distortion derivative.
regards, |
So the bottom line is that it is **intention** that defines what a high end amplifier is. It is certainly not the ability to drive 2 ohms, as quite often that ability means that the amplifier might not sound like real music, and therefore neither can the speaker being thus driven. Some designers want to see their equipment sound better than that. You see? Its intention, and nothing else. - Atmasphere
So who determines when the amplifier sounds like real music Ralph, Stereophile, Absolute sound, you, me? ........
Any and all hi -end amplfiers IMO, should be :
* True Voltage source
* Have Low THD/TIM
* Wide bandwidth 10-100K.
as the basic's, how can an amplifier that can't even pass a proper 10,20, 20K, 50K or 100K squarewave even be considered accurate, musical? Maybe, anything can be musical, it depends on the ears, accurate to the input signal .... NAH !
The dynamic function involved in reproducing music is very complex AND in the absolute world an amplifier's role is not to have any sonic signature, regardless of load, nothing to do with pleasant THD vs Bad THD, that's absurd and as a designer why would you not want a true voltage source, why because yours can't?
Please !!!!
It's time we started discussing in absolute terms Ralph it's not by coincidence that a lot of top rated amplifiers are True voltage source type or close to it. I do fully understand you feel you have to defend your topology, OK, but maybe you need to step away from these type of discussions instead of turning this into another tube vs SS thing we always seem to get into.
Now does this mean an amp that is not a true voltage source will sound bad, Absolutely not!! but it will be limited to it's "intended" 8 ohm purpose, forget about SOTA ...
Also some of the amplifiers mentioned by you do suffer tonal coloration with load change, they work best at 8/4 ohms IMO.
Unfortunately and If one's intent is a SOTA system, with the intent to sound like live music, there is no 8 ohm speaker to do so and invariably 4 and below will creep in.
Regards, |
More on your favorite topic:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/distortion/distortion_2.html |
The point of this thread I thought was all about what made an amplifier high end. To that regard, I hate to say it but its a simple fact that the intention of the designer is what fulfills this definition, not the actual sound produced! -Atmasphere,
LOL, Ralph, i guess that response will do..... I accept :)
The best speakers made are lower than 8 ohms and this is absolutely true for a SOTA speaker system, if low distortion and low dynamic compression is the goal.
I would not be interested in an amplifier that is not a true voltage source or at least close to, too much of a compromise to begin with IMO and i will agree that in itself does not make an amplifier hi-end, just not SOTA.
Maybe we should define a price point , i will give this ago, any SS Amp over 10K should be a voltage source amplfier IMO.
Betta ?
Regards, |
Atmasphere,
Where can i find bench test results of your amplifiers? Most tubies have issues with a 20 hz square wave due to there trannies, so it would be interesting to see what yours look like without.
Do you post on your web site ? I last heard one of your amplifiers at Stereophile 94, we were on the same floor, so i guess a ton has been done since, well apart from the Hi-end renumeration... :)
Will you be in Atlanta ?
Regards, |
