Galion TS120

Just a bit of more information. The DAC module on the ARC i50 just came out. 

Story is here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1dKFaoo5Xs&t=202s

The post on the Doge page seems a little harsh. I have enjoyed Thomas' channel at times. Like I previously noted, the sound samples from the Galion were good and the other enticing thing about it is getting to choose between class A or AB. 

@phillyb  and ​​​​@tubeguy76 

I can't tell whether what is on the Doge site is factual or not just by reading it. Certainly, the guy posting it has some hard feelings. I also thought it was very strange that Doge would air the "dirty laundry" which gives me pause. 

@curiousjim posted a review by Jay who is a friend of Thomas and reviewers up in Canada on the Galion. I think Jay is honest and will say something is off if he thinks it is. You can look at his review of the Doge 10 and he didn't really like it until it got modified to tame the high end. I also got the feeling that he was being a bit kind to Thomas though, with tube rolling, he got where he thought the amp was very good. 

As to whether Thomas is technical or not, he wanted the amp to do certain things and it was built to accommodate him and he is proud of it. There is a pretty wide dispersion of reviewers who have looked at it and pretty much all agree that they like it so this amp isn't just a "new look Doge 10" as the Doge 10 had some reviewers not so high on it. 

I posted this originally not to criticize anyone but because there is a complete lack of reviews or comments from people in these forums and I thought that surely someone had bought the amp or tried it. I wanted to see if the "common people" had any opinions on the amp because I'm not sure I completely trust the YouTube reviewers or the reviews that are posted on the Galion site. What I mean by not completely trusting is that I am not sure I am getting the whole story.  

@rajugsw thanks for your feedback. You're the only one in this thread who actually has hands on the amp. I was mainly concerned because of the posts on the Doge site and the seeming lack of full disclosure about the amp including whether the glare which could be a problem for some with the Doge 10 was still there.  

I never thought that the Galion was a scam, I just wanted some feedback outside the inner circle. 

Thanks @turbotan for the lowdown. 

I don't think most of the posts are negative. Many, like me, are just trying to figure stuff out with the limited information. 

@jjss49 Is this an amp you’ve actually heard? Why is this, in your opinion, the answer to everything?

I've been trying to investigate it and there are a few things bothering me. First, the optional modular phono stage is MM and high output MC cartridges but not low output MC cartridges. The optional modular DAC has almost no information about it. 

This is supposed to be an entry level product but it costs anywhere from $5,500 to $7,250 with the options. That means that it is competing with many mid to high level products from other companies. How does it compare to other integrateds in the same price area?  

@dman1974 Thanks for posting your experience. What speakers were you driving?

@jjss49 I'm not trying to inflict brain damage but I do agonize over decisions like this. You are correct "entry level" is relative to the manufacturer but "entry level" do tend to be more basic in functions. I actually took that term vis a vis this amp from a YouTube reviewer. It wasn't meant to be derogatory per se.

 I'm not interested the one you linked. My set up is a medium/small room that is open and I have Nola Boxer S3s on top of an audio cabinet. Amusingly, the Nola Boxers are basically entry level as well and also still expensive though I stumbled upon them for less than 1/2 price almost new. 

I'm looking at the LTA Ultralinear + integrated which has a deal now that they are throwing in a phono stage for MM + MC for free. I already have an LTA Z40+ (again bought used and about 2/3 the price for essentially a new unit) integrated for my primary system which I like. I'd love to see a Don Sachs' Valhalla integrated amp come up but that's rare.  The owner of Nola let me know that customers report that they are having good success with the Boxers and the Cayin CS-88a but I'm thinking that the Galion and the LTA might be better. 

The LTA sound is more hybrid than lush tube. I don't have a lot of experience with tube amps but I had a Rogers 65V-2 which was lush and which I loved but then got fatigued with that sound and kept moving towards the hybrid sound. 

Thomas has said that the Galion is more like a hybrid sound. I'm speculating that the ARC is more lush tubey sound but I'm not sure. I might jump on it if I knew more about the DAC module and if the phono stage was fit for low output MC but it's not. The ARC (with both options) is the same price as the LTA. The Galion and the Cayin are both about 1/2 that price. I'm not crazy about anything DIY so the LTA appeals to me because I already know I like the sound (although the Ultralinear is a bit different than the Z40i+). I'm not finding used bargains anywhere so I'm looking at new stuff and the LTA sale won't go on much longer. 

So yes, there is massive brain damage but mostly self-directed and inflicted. My MO is to do as much research as possible and then make an impulsive decision. LTA does give a 14 day trial period and I'm not sure whether any of the others allow for the trial period. 

I'm not here to disparage Thomas or his product or any other product. Thomas and I have had nice private communications. I'm just looking for a bit of help. 

The main reasons I started this thread are that I liked what I heard on New Record Day's tests but I can't really trust YouTube sound checks and I was a bit frustrated from the lack of feedback on this amp outside the inner circle. Nothing nefarious. 

@clarke10925 Thanks for the information. Not the Cayin A88T however but the relatively newer Cayin CS-88a. 

I'm still going back and forth on several options in my head. 

Well my infernal dialogue is over. I'm getting a Don Sachs Valhalla amp. Very excited. Appreciate all of the posts in this amp. Still very curious to hear the Galion TS120 in person or read reviews from anyone who buys/tries it. 

@avanti1960 

The $4495 is for the special edition. The standard model Galion is $3495. Having looked at the website, I think the only model Doge they are selling is the Doge 7 not the Doge 10 and it is a special anniversary sale for cash only.  

Thomas posted above:

5)Doge 10 was $2100 when they stop producing many months ago. So imagine if they start selling it again. It would probably be $2250 (due to inflation) + 30% tariff ($675)+ DHL ($400) = $3325 USD to your home. Yes, those are the hidden cost many of you did not pay attention to. While the TS120 normal edition is $3500 (Not a penny more) to your home.

Thomas also pointed out the differences in the amp you get for $175 extra as well in his post. As for the "ChiFi" comment I suppose that is meant to be a derogatory comment about where the product is made. There are numerous products that posters like that are made in China (even if designed elsewhere) or designed and made in China. There is no reason to be dismissive of a product for that one reason. For example Line Magnetic and Prima Luna. 

If you have heard and didn't like the Doge, that is fair comment. It is also fair to recommend alternatives. 

@avanti1960 Thanks for the clarification. 

@veerossi Thanks for the report. I was very much considering the Galion. Thomas had suggested that I be part of the testing process but I declined after obtaining the Valhalla mainly because the effort of switching these heavy amps and connections seemed a bit too much as well as dealing with the shipping. I will say that I am ecstatic with the Valhalla amp and anyone who wants to know about it can ask me but it is off topic here.

It seems that this price point of about $3,500 -- $5,000 has some great options for integrated tube amps. I am curious about your final decision. Was it based upon the tubes, the 805 tubes you have in your LM? Is it the synergy in your system? Or are you thinking of something else?

I just want to update my situation. I am using the Valahalla amp for my main speakers, Spatial Audio Lab X5s. I went to Pacific Audio Fest and met the Spatial Audio Lab gang who are also making the Valhalla amp. Also Don Sachs who built the Valhalla amp (and has taught Cloud Sessions at Spatial Audio Lab to build them) and Lynn Olson whose design Don used. Don and Lynn are building a 300b monoblock piece de resistance which is the main topic of the 300b thread. I got to hear a prototype along with Cloud Sessions' improved Valhalla amp as well as Spatial Audio Lab's new speakers. 

Anyhow, I originally got the Valhalla to drive the Nola Boxers but it was better than the LTA and so the LTA went to drive the Boxers. I changed the set up (furniture) and the LTA unfortunately no longer fit inside the furniture as it was about an inch too wide. I had a Nakamichi TA-4A which had been recapped and sounded good so I used that as a placeholder. 

Carl Marchisotto, the guy who is behind the Nola speakers (and I also said hello to at the Pacific Audio Fest) had emailed me saying that the Boxers were meant to be played with KT88 tubes (the Valhalla uses K66 tubes and the LTA uses EL34s or KT77s) and his customers had found synergy with the Cayin CS-88A integrated tube amp. I finally found one used for sale on the Canuck Audio Mart (I've found some nice stuff there including the Boxers at less than 1/2 price as well as PS Audio's phono stage at about 1/2 price). Just came in today and yes there is synergy and a very rich sound. Heavy sucker bot it fits the space and really works well with the speakers. I had some things to deal with in terms of inputs and the right channel not working until I made sure the tubes were all pushed in but it sounds exactly what I knew these speakers could do. Yay!