FLAC vs WAV


I have observed (heard and then tested so as to confirm) the following “condition” as it relates to the widely debated issue of FLAC quality. The purpose of this topic is to gather opinions as to whether or not your observations are similar too – and therefore support – my own.

It is widely understood and accepted that a FLAC file while “compressed” is “lossless” as compared to its corresponding WAV file. Let’s assume (i.e. not debate) this is completely true. What I am noticing is that when the FLAC file is “played” via any FLAC player it sounds different from the sound of the “same” (equivalent decompressed FLAC) WAV file when played back via the same player that was used to play the FLAC file. This is specifically noticeable (to me) in the low frequency spectrum. The WAV has considerably more “sonic energy” that manifests itself as appearing to be a bit louder, wider in frequency range and perhaps even dynamic range as compared to the FLAC equivalent.

I’m curious as to your findings when you compare a FLAC file played natively as compared to the WAV equivalent played via the same player (for example, play both the FLAC and WAV via VLC media player) or practical equivalent, such as if the FLAC was burned to CD and you are comparing the FLAC played via VLC and the CD played via a CD player.

I am further assuming that the WAV file is a more accurate representation of the audio than the FLAC. This is to say that should you agree with the aforementioned, it would be preferable to play the WAV file or decompress the FLAC file before using it.

128x128gdhal

Showing 9 responses by gdhal

Thank you mapman and emailists. I concur with you Emailists, although I have not used AIF with a MAC. Perhaps to restate my point of this thread in different words, what I am saying is that it certainly appears as though it is "best" to pre-decompress the FLAC first - using say Traders Little Helper - and then once decompressed to WAV then play it. Perhaps FLAC players which decompress on-the-fly while playing does not do as good of a job as pre-decompressing. So mapman, while I agree that lossless is lossless, in my opinion (and emailists and perhaps others) while the file is lossless it may not be as good as when decompressed into its then uncompressed lossless state. 
DTC, the short answer to your questions is no.

The longer answer is as follows. The FLAC file(s) I am speaking of are "created" outside of my control. Specifically, I download them from bt.etreeg.org using Utorrent (64-bit). I then burn to CD using Ashampoo version 6. Playback via Emotiva ERC-3, Musical Fidelity M6si, Golden Ear Triton One's. It as at that point in some instances (music passages) I can notice more "bass energy" (simplistic term but that will suffice for now). Then, I have compared that point (time and track data) in order to play back the FLAC and decompressed WAV version of it via my computer, Gateway NV79. That connects to my M6si via USB. Granted, the DAC on the M6si differs from the DAC in the ERC-3, however, that should have nothing to do with this because what I am finding is that the WAV when played back is more representative (all around but looking at the bass energy here) to the ERC-3 playback than the FLAC. This is to say the FLAC and WAV when played via the same computer and at the same track and time index produce different (in some passages that I can detect using my ears only) bass energy. Also, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that I use VLC player (latest version) and the "settings" are kept the same when playing.
Steve (audioengr), given your response, would you go further to say that by extrapolation, one should convert FLAC to WAV prior to burning to CD (as opposed to letting the same CD burning software do the conversion)? Again, in my case I would convert the FLAC to WAV using Traders Little Helper and then burn using Ashampoo V6 (Windows 10). This would be opposed to not using Traders Little Helper and allowing Ashampoo to burn the FLACS to CD (as audio CDA files) directly.
And given that there is division between FLAC and WAV among certain of those who have responded to this topic, I’d now like to ask if it is the opinion of those in the FLAC or WAV camp as to whether or not there is a quality difference in playing and/or decompressing FLAC depending on the original compression level.

The reason I'm asking is not simply to fuel yet another debate. In my case, I obtain the flac files from bt.etree.org. I (seemingly) have no visibility into the compression level. In fact I have never read a notation from any of the posters on that site who distribute in flac (both 16 and 24 bit) having anything to do with the compression.

What I have found is that when I download a show in totality it is (hypothetically) 600 meg and when I convert/decompress to WAV it is closer to a 1.5 gig.

Thanks to everyone.
Something interesting (to me anyway) I have discovered. As reported by Windows Properties size (not size on disk), a WAV encoded to Flac (compression level 6 but realistically any) and then back to WAV from that FLAC is not identical. For example, if the WAV is 399,718,326 bytes and converted to FLAC it is 188,443,075 bytes. If I then decode the FLAC back to WAV the size is 399,718,324 bytes. Can that 2 byte difference be explained?
acurus, thank you, however, what I have discovered transcends whether or not you, I or anyone else can "hear" a difference. Question is, "is there a difference". Apparently there is.

By the way, I’ve read great things about JRiver from numerous audiophiles so do not doubt it is very good. Best is subjective. In my case I use Windows Media 12 (on Windows 10) and find it more than adequate.

thanks dtc. your response makes sense. perhaps at some point I may attempt to inspect the binary but I'm good for now. curious though as you indicate it can be a result of the way the program writes the data (padding zeros, etc.), do you observe any byte difference? 
Thank you so much dtc for the confirmation as to the byte size question. You've convinced me and saved me some time in wanting to do the file binary compare. No need if you too have noticed a small difference.
@nipper1954

Seriously? There are a few inaccuracies in your post. But I too love all my music being digital and in a lossless format. :)