Do you really need ultra expensive cables?

I agree with you, Viggen. And if you had heard the McIntosh BMW at CES, you would have questioned what they consider "quality". That remains my point.

Many would dispute that one, Sean. Clarion was mid line at best. The few gents that I know that are still into car audio tell me that Clarion hasn't changed.

What the heck, though. Many high end manufacturers buy products from the orient, place their placard on it, and charge a high mark up. Maybe it's okay. Afterall, it works for Mark Levinson and McIntosh.

Installation skills certainly play a role in car audio as do they in home audio. Component matching, proper isolation, etc. all play a role.

In short, Viggen, you add support to my first post on this thread where I mention that most large corporations are full of those not really into the hobby, that have questionable skills, and hearing. If, as you state, proper installation equates to such a high percentage of car audio final performance, one can assume that the negative result of the 540 BMW at 2003 CES was an indication of the skill level of McIntosh's personell on this important project. This said, their statement that they spend less than 3% on cabling also makes sense.

After all, as Drubin stated, "You don't need expensive cables, but you do need good cables. Unfortunately, the good ones tend to be pricey".

Jack

I apologize Sean. I had assumed that you were not vain enough as to consider my posts as a personal attack. I merely stated my opinion, which differs greatly from yours.

P.S. I had listened to the McIntosh 540 BMW at 2003 CES. I wasn't impressed, not at all. I had investigated from whom they sub-contracted to and found out it is Clarion. My suspicions were confirmed. Once again, Sean, I am only stating my opinion. I'm sorry that you took this the wrong way. I'll try to avoid posting if my opinion differs ...

I agree with you, Viggen. Wouldn't you assume that an audiophile company that displays their latest car audio products boldly, at the footsteps of the High End Audio exhibits at CES, to maybe raise the bar somewhat? To produce something that betters the typical car system that annoys us at the stoplight? (One note bass, etc.)

And, in the case of McIntosh's CES exhibits, aren't the corporate guys calling the shots? Don't they have the power to decide what they want to display? If they have the choice of component matching and installers (which you give 90% credit to), one could assume that they would place their best foot forward. This is no different criticism that the high end audio manufacturers endure. If someone has a decent sounding room at CES, it is because they have proper system integration, proper placement, proper use of room treatments, etc., however, they also have to start with decent sounding products. Correct?

In this case, it was the corporate guys at McIntosh calling the shots. The typical teenager that hangs out at the local car stereo shop did not decide to re-brand a Clarion with a McIntosh placard. Nor did they chose system components/installers/displaying where they had at CES. This remains my point.

Jack

Great answer Drubin. I agree. I'm guessing that the non-audiophile corporate suits that work for McIntosh couldn't tell a difference between various cabling. Most small audio companies employ those that are into the hobby, that have hearing. In my experience, most corporate audio companies hire those without. Need proof? Walk through the Las Vegas Convention Center next CES, there are examples standing everywhere. Besides, I'd rather rely on my own judgement, rather than trust someone else.

Since we are on the subject of McIntosh, did you know that their car audio is sub-contracted out from Clarion? If you want that "McIntosh" sound in your vehicle, you need go no further than your local Clarion dealer. (I mention this because McIntosh had quite the car audio display at 2003 CES. I wondered why they would have a car audio system on display just outside of the "zoo", next to the pool, rather than in the Convention Center). After all, when did car audio become worthy of a high end audio exhibit? When did Clarion become worthy?