Do not buy any Sonus Faber used

The issue for Sumiko and Sonus Faber is grey market stuff. There are people who bring it in for Europe and sell it in the US. It used to be a bigger problem than it is today. They have had that notice up for years. If I remember correctly they put that notice up when someone was selling a pair of Strads from Poland that the seller claimed were gifts from the founder Franco Serblin, which was not true. As long as your speakers have real serial numbers and came from an authorized US distributor you are fine. If you want to buy a used pair, just check where it was purchased, get the serial number and check with Sumiko.

Swampwalker, Peterayer - that is why Sumiko put up the warning on Audiogon. So people would not be caught unware. If anyone has any doubt, get the serial number and call Sumiko. There used to be a guy who sold SF under the name American Home Theater or something like that. It was clearly grey market. I called Sumiko and they said he was not an authorized dealer. End of my involvement with him. With Internet sales (new) I always check on whether the seller is an authorized dealer. I do sometimes buy from unauthorized dealers or from owners who cannot guarantee were it came from, but I do so knowing I may be trouble for parts later on. I certainly do not make significant purchases when I cannot trace the orginal. Just good buying sense in this day and age.

Folks, don't overthink this. This is about obvious grey market product, with no serial numbers or serial numbers than clearly do not have a US origin. If you have a serial number that says it was US merchandise then you should be fine. Sumiko is not some sort of evil empire. They provide great customer service. They just want to cut down on grey market product, as do all distributors. If you have any question about used product or unauthorized dealers, just call them.

Honestly, I think it is good for Sumiko to warn people of possbile issues with used equipment, rather than have people find it out after the fact.

Djohnson54 - many companies only honor a warranty for the original owner. Sumiko/SF is no different. They will sell you replacement parts if your product is not grey market.

Elberoth2 - I was once in the market for a car that was hard to find in the US. I found one, but it was grey market from Canada. I immediately walked away. Same with audio equipment. If I do not know where it comes from I either walk or decide to take a chance, knowing it may be an issue. And "imported from Canada" is very different than grey maket merchadise from Canada.

This policy is about grey market dealers trying to circumvent the SF distribution process, not general purpose sales. If you want to buy grey market equipment from outside Sumiko's territory, just be prepared for the possibility you might have to buy parts from the place of origin. There was a time when there was starting to be a problem with grey market SF speakers in the US. Sumiko shut down a lot of it, which I am fine with.

Incidently, my guess is that if you lived in Europe where you purchased SF speakers from an authorized dealer and moved to the US and brought them with you, chances are Sumiko would sell your parts through their authorized dealer chain.

For me its simple :

If you do not like the Sumiko/Sonus Faber policy, then don't buy the products. Note they are very upfront about the policy here on Audion and on their website.

Always think twice about grey market equipment.

Always ask the source of anything you buy.

Incidenly, I have 5 sets of SF speakers from Concertino Homes to Cremona. I have talked to them on multiple occassions and they have always been extremely helpful. Fortunately, I have never had to had any service.

Djohnson54 - This is about grey market speakers, not ones from authorized dealers.

Sumiko is perfectly willing to support used equipment, as long as it is not grey market. Nobody buying SF speakers from an authorized dealer should have any qualms about buying them and selling them. If you buy used speakers that originally came from an authorized dealer you are fine. But, if you want to buy from the grey market, then you need to be careful. In fact, supporting grey market speakers would hurt Sumiko's business, because it encourages people to buy from grey market sources, with the knowledge that Sumiko will bail them out if anything happends.

I totally agree that not supporting used equipment that originally came from an authorized dealer would be a bad business models. But that is not their policy.

Djohnson54 - Sorry if I seem too aggressive about this. I am a huge SF fan and have had great experiences with SF dealers and with Sumiko. Sumiko is not against the used market but they are against the grey market.

I understand why distributors are sensitive to the grey market. There is not enough volume in the high end to support high end brick and mortar stores and a significant grey market. I have purchased SF both new and used. I just will not buy high end equipment that has come through the grey mark.

Enjoy.

Phaelon - Your statement that they have just placed the burden on the end user is just not accurate. Sumiko and Sonus Faber have worked diligently to tighened up the distribution channel. The grey market problem is much less than it was 5+ years ago. They have worked this issue from several angles and seem to have reduced the problem greatly. In addition, they have warned the end user of the potential problems with dealing with the grey market - both on their website and here on Audiogon. Remember, these warning statements have been around for years.

I leave it to you to worry about the potential legal aspects of the issue. I will continue to support the authorized channel.

So Inna, are you willing to pay $30K for a $40K pair of Strads, knowing that you cannot get replace parts if anything goes wrong? At some point service becomes part of "better terms".

Jeffkad - just to be clear, this policy has been in place for many years and that notice has been posted on Audiogon for many years. This is not a new policy.

This policy came into place because of unethical and what is probably even illegal activity by sellers on this website.

Anyone who has done a search on Sonus Faber speakers over the last several years should have seen the notice. It is pretty obvious. The notice is hard to miss.

Sonus Faber Search

There is a healthy used market for SF here on Audigon, even with this policy in place.

Again, if you want to purchase a used SF speaker, get the serial number and confirm with Sumiko if they will sell replacement parts. If you are buying new, keep the receipt (which you should do anyway), and, if you sell it, provide a copy to the new owner and explain the situation.

If you really object to this policy just buy another brand. If you want to buy SF, then just follow the procedure. It is not that hard.

Call Sumiko and explain the situation. Call SF and explain the situation. It would be interesting to hear what they both say. You should try to get past the first level of support.

Harris4crna - That is good news.

My understanding is Sumiko started their stated repair policy when a large number of black market speakers were coming into the US. They just wanted to warn people that they would not support black market speakers. But they are willing to service used equipment purchased through authorized dealers. The policy they stated to you is consistent with my discussions with Sumiko, although I have never had to have anything repaired.

Warranties are quite commonly country specific. Warranty costs are included in the purchase price. Since Sumiko earned nothing for the sale, it is not surprising they will not honor a warranty. SF could try to intervene, but Sumiko's policy is following pretty standard warranty processes. The warranty situation is similar to Canadian cars brought into the US. They are often not covered by warranty in the US.

Thanks for the update.

Distributors can refuse a full paid repair job if they wish. Sumiko used this tactic to try to cut down on gray market product sales back when Tweeter was selling SF. There was one "dealer" in particular who was selling gray market speakers very openly on this site. There was other gray market product being sold from Europe. From what I can tell, the gray market for SF in the US has disappeared or been greatly reduced.

People may not agree with the practice, but there is no requirement for a distributor to sell parts or do repairs on gray market product.

Listen to Apdoc2004 - if in doubt, call Sumiko and ask. Most of what is on this thread is hearsay.

Brf - that statement is under the Warranty section of the website. It basically says they will only honor the warranty if you purchase from an authorized dealer. Many companies will not provide warranty services for products not purchased from an authorized dealer. They also notes that the warranty is not transferable.

Once again, if in doubt, call them.

Harris4crna - included in the price of anything you buy is an amount to cover the warranty. In your case, that money went to a dealer in Italy and on to Sonus Faber in Italy. Sumiko did not see any of that money. For them to do the warranty work for yor speakers they should get paid by Sonus Faber corporate to do it. My guess is they do not and that is why they do do warranty work for speakers purchased outside the US. It is actually a pretty common practice. Try buying a car in Canada and getting warranty work done in the US. Same situation. Also, warranty laws differ country to country, which further complicates matters. I agree it would be nice if all warranties were worldwide and transferable but most companies do not do that.

I recently bought an integrated amp for use in Switzerland. I purchased it in Switzerland for this very reason.