Dedicated Circuits - Subpanel importance?


My system is no more. Sold everything. Starting from scratch. Thanks to you and seven months of experience I am doing the following, which is taking care of the number one component, the room:

  1. Treating. The full GIK order in October is starting to arrive.
  2. Running one or more dedicated circuits.

I am addressing #2 in this post. There are extensive discussions here and one can spend hours if not days trying to wring-out the critical details needed for a DIY solution. I have spent hours and there a few things I need to confirm before I proceed because I was unable to find definitive answers.

I am doing this myself. I do not want or need lectures on only having a licensed electrician do this work. I have been doing my own electrical work for many years and am very comfortable doing so.

  1. Does a subpanel help? Is it required? Subpanels are typically supplied from a breaker off of the main panel's bus, so I'm guessing there is no advantage in terms of SQ? Perhaps if I can independently ground the subpanel it might make a difference?
  2. Opening up my walls is not an option, so I need to use conduit. This may restrict the number of lines if the wire should not share the same conduit? If I am restricted to Romex 8 or 10,2 versus metal-clad, is it okay for two runs to occupy the same conduit?
  3. How much better is metal-clad? Is it required vs Romex? Will metal conduit accomplish the same result with Romex?

Answers to these questions will complete my plans and I will go forward at speed. Hopefully this discussion helps others as well even if it's to know what to have their electrician setup for them.

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

128x128izjjzi

Showing 6 responses by ieales

So many words, so much misinformation🤔

  • Romex offers very good magnetic field suppression
  • Twisted wire offers very good noise immunity
  • Loose wires in conduit is poor and essentially a radiating transformer
  • No current should flow in the ground and if it does there is a problem
  • Earth Safety must only tie at a single point unless an engineered solution is installed
  • A single over capable current circuit is better than two as two will contaminate each other unless pains are taken to ensure otherwise
  • Peak current is far below what will trip a 20A breaker for most home systems
  • Breakers will run @ 100% forever, 150% of trip value for a long time and close to 1000% for about a second
  • A soft start system control can mitigate power on surge. Ditto sequenced power on.
  • Musical peaks are not in phase with the line
  • Peak current at full breaker rating drops less than 0.2dB across the AC line over about 50 feet
  • If you install two circuits be certain they are on the SAME Phase and on the opposite phase to the noisy stuff. You may need to rearrange the panel, depending on the existing layout. High current things like stoves and dryers are low noise while aircon is higher. Dimmers can play havoc.
  • Single breakers opposite one another in a panel are one the same phase. Single breakers on the same side and below one another are the opposite phase.
  • IF you are capable, significant system wide noise reduction can be effected by paying attention to the line phase in the electronics
  • Ensure the Line, Neutral and Earth Safety connections are pristine all the way to the meter

See Microsoft PowerPoint - Indy AES 2012 Seminar w-Notes v1-0.ppt (wordpress.com)

If your hifi is on a seperate circuit as above, you are not going to get noise from an appliance on a seperate circuit.

We must have imagined moving the breaker to the other leg curing the noise.

'Leg' is synonymous w 'phase'

A home 120VAC panel is fed from a center-tapped transformer.

The Neutral, connected to Earth, is the center tap. Each leg of the panel is connected to one output of the transformer, which are out of phase.

The two legs of the panel are out of phase with one another.

The main purpose for a ground connection to earth is for lightning protection. It does absolutely nothing for improving the sound of an audio system. The earth does not possess some magical mystical power that sucks nasties form an audio system.

If only audiophools understood this one thing...

... and adding additional rods may make the system less capable to survive a strike.

The Ott link seem DoA...

Leg is not synonymous or the same thing as electrical phase.

From an electronics standpoint, residential panel legs are 180° out of phase.

Three phase power is 3x 240 volt 120° apart. Apples & oranges.

 

I believe what I believe, BUT it doesn’t change the truth. It almost depends on which expert you ask about one phase or two going to a residential home. My understanding is this, 1) that if in fact that two separate conductors were run to a panel, but were of the same phase, you would still have 120 volts, but with more possible current capacity. 2) OTOH, if each of these two conductors (at 120 volts each) were Out of phase with each other, Then the DIFFERENCE between them will equal 240 volts.

I have heard this discussed more than once, especially at the PS Audio site, which would be damned near a reference for me.

Believe in the tooth fairy if you like, but ONE phase of the three 240 volt lines is run to residential property. 120 volts is derived from the Neutral Center tap and each leg of the transformer. A lot of PS Audio is bunk!

 

It's AC. There is no polarity per se. The AC waveforms have equal magnitude are out of phase

AC Center Tap