Connecting I-pod to Integrated Amplifiers

CK - If you want to read an actual "review" of how the iPod performs within the context of a good system, this 6moons piece is much more to the point and will give folks a better idea of what to expect, and what not to. It's pretty much on the money from my listening experiences, but goes into much more detail as I didn't bother listening to it very long or extensively in that capacity (it only takes a few cuts to conclude, "why bother?"). It's not really the point of the iPod after all.

Marco

Agree; definitely use the line-out, or the line-out on a Dock if you don't have one on your iPod. Do not use the headphone jack which runs off the tiny op-amp in the iPod. Better yet, if there were some solution to get a digital output from the iPod that could run into an outboard DAC, then you'd be cooking with gas! I started a thread a while back, which I'll ammend now having just seen this implemented in a mini-system by Monitor Audio. If you read the description of the features of this mini-system, it claims to use the iPod simply as a digital feed and use its own DAC to do the conversion. I have no experience with this unit, so can't comment specifically, but that'd be the way I'd want to go. Short of that, line-out and you will still need that 1/8" mini to dual RCA iPod interconnect. I use one of Signal-Cable's silver versions of this plug and am very happy with it (about $70). Do not make the mistake of buying one of those docks with the RCA outputs directly on them (can't recall the manufacturer...costs $99). I tried one and they are truly horrible. They do put some kind of filter, circuitry or op-amp between the iPod and the outputs. Whatever that circuitry is absolutely ruins the sound. I took mine back after two days and went with the basic Apple iDock for my 60GB iPod (which otherwise has no line-out). The iDock has a mini jack for line-output. The signal from the line-out this way is markedly better than going through the headphone jack.

As far as the naysayers go; don't knock it till you've tried it. The one huge advantage it offers is having a big chunk of your music that you can bring anywhere with you. I have a hook-up to my Alpine deck in my car, and travel with a head-amp, and sometimes powered speakers to enjoy music in my hotel room. 300+ CD's at my fingertips in lossless format. At home it makes for a thoroughly enjoyable source via line-out for everything but critical listening, where I still think most would be hard-pressed to tell the difference. Of course you'd know it was there in your system and you'd have to live with that nagging thought. Eventually the Audiophile Police would come a knockin' and confiscate your membership card and decoder ring. You'd be black listed in the community, shunned by those who deplore such mediocrity, and if you listen long enough your johnson will shrivel up and fall off, and you'll go blind.

Marco

Excellent post CK! Thanks for re-introducing me to that 6moons article as it bears re-reading. I'll look forward to hearing your opinions on the your modded iPod vs. modded Squeezebox. I had a few email exchanges with Vinnie on the subject of getting adigital stream from the iPod as Monitor Audio is doing. Though he thought it was a good idea, he said he currently had too much on his plate to consider it at this time. He speculated that they must be using the USB out to an internal converter, but wasn't sure what they were using to interface with that signal, which would otherwise require some software. Somehow they seem to bypass the need for software and default to the iPods own controls. There's yet another review of the iDeck, along with a $3700 tube-driven iPod mini system from Goldster Audio that uses single-driver whizzer cone speakers. Nothing unexpected in that reviews by Michael Fremer in the current (March 06) Stereophile, and no mention of the Monitor Audio product using its own DAC either. He was impressed with both systems, each in a different way (the $3700 Goldster he seemed to find more myopic in it's realm of excellence, and in that way thought the money better spent on something else). Nothing revolutionary I'd say, but amazing, nonetheless, to get such good sound from a tiny iPod. As has been opined already, silly to compare it to much more expensive solutions.

Marco

Whoops, I said 300+ CD's on a 60GB iPod in ALAC format. Not true. It's a mere 120 CD's. My mind must have been wandering to my shriveling johnson and failing eyesight.

Cool mods at RedWine - thanks for the links. I still want to know why no one seems to be able to get a digital output since Monitor Audio claims to do that? I think I'll write to Vinnie and see what he has to say on the subject.

Marco

CK - I've read that 6moons article before. It really is more about the Avantgarde speakers more than the iPod IMO, but does have some helpful iPod info. Overall it occurs to me as an audio fluff piece. When it came to the question anyone who is likely to be reading that article would want to ask, they did not go at all into detail of any kind of comparisons between an iPod and anything else running through the same speakers. It does not surprise me that you can get an iPod to sound pretty good through a $7000 pair of amplified horn speakers...but how does it compare to other options? Did I miss something?

The only mention of anything like this comes at the end, and is evasive at best:

The 10 guilder -- or rather $15,000 -- question: How did the HiPod system compare to our usual reference rig? The question is easy but the answer is more complicated. Consider that our Duos are at the tail end of a system comprised of the CEC TL5100 as transport, an AudioNote DAC, a TacT RCS 2.0 as preamp/room-correction engine and an Audio Note Meishu with KR300Bs as power amp. Interconnect cables (all on loan for review) are presently Stealth Indra, Siltech SQ88 MKII, Van den Hul Gold Hybrid, Xindak FA Gold, Crystal Cable Piccolo, Harmonix Golden Performance. Our standard cabling is Crystal Cable Reference.

The most obvious difference thus is price. With a Solo, you don't need an expensive power amplifier. One already comes with the package. A decent stereo power amplifier for the Duos will set you back at least $3,000. Subtract this amount from the Solo's list price for a fair comparison. It brings it to $6,000/pr and you even get a bi-amped setup. A pair of Duos in the US is still 20K.

It goes on but never really addresses any real evaluation of the iPod as a source compared to other sources.

Marco

I find it pretty amazing that a reviewer would go out on a limb and say that a iPod sounds decent through a high resolution system.

I read it over again, and I really can't find any critical review of the iPod's sound in that system whatsoever! There is no going out on a limb, other than perhaps the concept of the article . But that concept is not followed through to being any kind of review at all (which is why I say it's just a fluff piece). Again, perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think so. As far as I got from reading it, the reviewer says nothing at all about the sound of the iPod in that system. The information I did get from it corresponds to my own experiences: the line-out is an improvement over the headphone jack. In both cases the iPod lacks in the low-end, both in depth and resolution (though I don't think the reviewer even goes that far). They chose the Avantgardes for their bass prowess to make up for this weakness in the iPod. Having read the article now twice, I have no idea, not even a remote sense, of what that system sounds like. It is, at best, a very basic primer on some of the ways to get the most out of your iPod when used as the front end of a home system. It is not a review, and there is certainly no risk taking that I can see in what's been said there.

I agree with you CK; as convenient as the iPod is, and as amazing the concept that so much music can fit in such a tiny space, and actually be reproduced in an enjoyable presentation through a system, I see no reason to do that when there are other choices at hand. I've compared my iPod to my own front end and you won't find it connected to my home system either. I absolutely would, however, run my computer via Waveterminal through my DAC, which makes for a brilliant front end. This is the reason I was looking for some way to get a digital-output from my iPod, as Monitor Audio claims to be doing. Do that, and I think you'd really be on the way to a significant improvement in iPod performance, and a real contender as a part of a digital front end.

Marco