"Best of the both worlds"...
Seems really hard,if not impossible to get.I don't know if i will achieve it,but it is my aim in my forthcoming "ultimate" system.It aimes to be the best system i have seen or heard of this far.
It will also be based on SILVERLINE speakers.Only different model.SINFONIA.
I believe that you know this model because you also own a similar high-end product from the same company.
I don't know about Grande La folia,but Sinfonia is tri-wired.This means i can connect 3 types of amps.
One connection is only for the rear-firing 12" woofer,one for tweeter and 2" midrange,and one for 7" mid and 12" front woofer.So i can play with different amps.
I chose to go with custom-made amps,made by Trlin Audio.I know the constructor personally,he lives in my city,and is very knowledgeable,especially on tube-related subjects.More than 15 years of experience in that field.He recommended 6 320B XLS SET monos,high-end,made with only the best possible parts.I chose to go with 4 of these monos - 2 per speaker.
But i plan to use transistor amplification on rear 12" woofer.I think that bi-polar transistor in AB class will give the best bass.Most precise and tight as you can get.Fastest recovery time after each peak.And i love it that way.Trlin Audio also makes those,but i will limit mine to 18 Watts exactly (same strength as 320B XLS monos).
This is the best i have come up with this far.I plan to close the bass reflex port of the front 12"woofer,to gain a bit more speed and accuracy,for it will be connected to 320B XLS monoblock.
Rear woofer will give the depth,which i personally enjoy very much.I guess this will be fine,if done properly.
I think this will be "the best of the both worlds".But only testing and testing and testing will give the true answer.I will post about the results of these tests,and also about the quality of Trlin Audio's Monos.Can't wait.But I have to wait for 3-5 months for all this to happen,as the apartment for my gear is being built.
Any thoughts or advices?Much welcomed. |
The differencies are VERY noticeable even above 40 Hz.
I tried a system in my office:
1.PC as transport
2.Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature
3.B&W 602 S3
4.Kimber VS8 speaker cable
Both with CAMBRIDGE AUDIO 640 V2 integrated SS amp,and with SET 300B MONOBLOCKS (2 x 9W).A/B testing for few hours.
Results - better than expected with every amp.BUT:
1. 300B monos had a better vocal,and treble and midrange alltogether.Which was expected,of course.
2. Bass - SS amp had more tight and more precise bass.Especially noticed in fast double-bass parts.More than depth,the bass SPEED was a problem for 300B.
Dynamic fast bass drum (double bass pedals) were significantly better with Cambridge amp.But these 300B monos
cuold be improved with better output transformer (which is the most important part for bass in SET amp).
This is why i plan to use SS monos on rear 12" woofer of my Silverline Sinfonia,as mentioned above in my post.Best of both worlds. |
+++Audiobb, I am surprised the 300B sounded better than the Cambridge consider the fact that you were using B&W 602+++
You shouldn't be.Tubes will give better mids and treble in variety of speakers.Regardless of impedance curves.We tested with few B&W (from 601 to 801D),Tannoy,Focal JM,Dynaudio etc.
+++Had you been using appropriate speakers, you may find your 300B capable of the same (or better) bass than the Cambridge.+++
I agree that,coupled with more tube-friendly speakers(8 ohmstable,93 db+),300B will improve in bass.But,according to our tests,Cambridge gives out more tight and precise bass.In my book,better and more linear bass.This is primarily caused by 2 things:
1.DAMPING FACTOR-Cambridge has couple times higher than SET amps.This can be improved with output trans.
2.PEAK AND RECOVERY TIME-Transistors are better than tubes there.Best are bipolar transistors.This is not my opinion,but plain fact.
For bass output,we have found transistors sonically better.BUT even better result still can be achieved with tubes-but it probably will cost sky high.See the previous post of Jmaldonado.But it still would never catch transistors in Peak and recovery time - which means not enough fast start and stop of bass driver.And for me it is essential. |
""The are no worries about 'stopping' and 'starting'- unless you listen to some very weird, amusical stuff that no-body has made up yet :)""
I don't agree with this.Every bass drum pedal hit is a sudden start and stop.Of course,it is an electric waveform,but our ear hears it as "start and stop".
And if you have dynamic double bass (in heavy metal for ex.),it will sound better with SS.More tight and controlled.
Atma is obviously an expert and knows more on subject than the rest of us.But i only report what i heard myself.
I thought damping factor was a part of it,and i am still not convinced it isn't.I read Atma's post a few times,and i'm still gonna get into that.But obviously Peak and Recovery time is better with SS.
I like tube amps more,espec. SET,but SS also has its strong points. |
Atmasphere,
i would like your opinion on amp-building for my speakers.
I own Silverline Sinfonia.Link:
http://www.silverlineaudio.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=18
Each speaker has 3 connections,so is tri-ampable.
1.connec. - treble and 2" midrange
2.connec. - 7" mid-bass and front 12" woofer
3.connec. - 12" rear woofer
The first idea for amp was 6 320B XLS monoblocks (3 per speaker).Silverline also liked it.
But now,for me it seems the best to use 320B XLS on first and 2nd conn.,and bipolar transistor monoblock (limited on 18 W,same power as 320B XLS) on rear 12" woofer.
Reason-peak and recovery time.Same thing is also recommended
to me by two constructors,both in bussines more than 10 years.
But now you say that proper tube amp can also give what i need.So i am puzzled.What would you use in my place?
Keep in mind,all can be built EXACTLY to my wishes.And i will use constructed amps(of excellent quality),not Krell or Ayre or CJ finished products.
The rest of my system:
CD-still not decided(volume contr. will be in CD pl. or DAC,eliminating separated pre-amp)
IC-Gabriel Gold Revelation (whole system)
Speaker cable-Nordost Valhalla (whole system)
Silverline Sinfonia speakers
I mostly listen to heavy metal (90%).Also jazz,some classical and blues and acoustic music.
|
+++Audiobb, This is an interesting speaker- it seems like it has a dual woofer system, but apparently the second woofer is on a different circuit.
So that would seem to make all the circuits 8 ohms. I would check with Silverline on this to be sure.+++
You are right on both things.I already checked with Silverline;every circuit is exactly the same - 8 ohm stable (+/-10% max)
I have checked your products;not until yesterday i figured out you are a manufacturer(i didn't notice your user name).OTL idea certainly seems interesting and theoretically right.But the problem is i have no posibillity to hear any of your amps.I am located in Croatia;you have no dealer here and no-one i know has any of your gear.But i would gladly match it up against Trlin Audio's top products.His amps do use OT,but i'm sure he can take the sound further than the sound i mentioned earlier.It would be a good and interesting duel of high-quality amps.
Thanks for your advice;I am aware i can run into difficulties,but i think i can overcome those.I aim at "the best of both worlds",which is always hard to achieve.
Your amps seem to be picking up the best of both designs,tubes and transistors.
I wish i could test some of your products in the future.
All the best wishes to you and your company. |
Swampwalker,i believe you.From my short experience,Ralph is very knowledgeable.
I spoke to Trlin about Atma-sphere,and he has told me good things about that company.So they are known in Croatia.
Trlin also told me that he has planned building an OTL prototype amp himself, but never got around to do it.He will use 6C33C tubes in his amp.Russian-made. |
I think that bass response has something to do with watt power.In my office, i will use Trlin Audio 320B XLS SET monoblocks.He wanted to make them 10 Watts each,but i insisted on full power - 18 watts per channel.
I think that somehow these extra 8 watts will contribute to better bass output.I don't need them for volume reasons, we listen to music very quietly in the office.
I think tubes will last shorter this way and all 18 Watts will contribute to the sound, no matter how loud i listen to the music.
I know most of you will not agree with this, but i think i am right.I will find out soon enough, that's for sure.
P.S.The speakers are B and W 602 s3 (90 db).Maybe i will replace them with Silverline monitor 17.5 in some time. |
Thanks.I agree with that;will post about the result |
